eBay’s new 2016 Seller Standards are now live
On Saturday 20th February 2016, eBay introduced the biggest changes to selling standards it has made for many a year.
The changes were announced last year and you’ll have had access to the new standards in the Seller Dashboard for a while now. So how are you faring? It’s only since Saturday that the new regime has come into force.
What are the changes?
We’ve written about them before and at length. Find out more here.
But some key points are that buyer feedback, detailed seller ratings (DSRs), returns requests that are successfully resolved with your buyer and items not received requests that are successfully resolved with your buyer should not be reflected.
What do these changes mean for sellers?
eBay has positioned these changes as “objective” rather than “subjective”. But in reality how they will affect you is individual. The best advice is to check out your Seller dashboard, via My eBay. This will give you personally a clear view of your situation.
What about inaccurate Royal Mail delivery defects?
One key change that has come into play is the new on-time metric, as explained here in detail.
Most notably, eBay changed tack on this one metric on Friday (at the eleventh hour) as we reported here. So there’s a stay of execution on Royal Mail tracking defects.
In the email to all sellers (that you will hopefully have received) they noted that this situation would continue until the 20th of May and, rightly, numerous sellers have asked what will happen after that date. And we just don’t know.
What about other unfair defects?
It’s time to get on the blower if your TRS status is under threat from what you consider incorrect defects that are dragging you down. This is both time consuming and likely frustrating but the only path.
How have you been affected?
Have you lost your Top Rated Seller status? Have you got unfair Defects? Do you feel you have been unfairly penalised? Let us know.
Whilst there is good news in these changes, and it’s no bad thing that eBay have pulled back on the Royal Mail defects situation, this is still a big change and we’re keen to learn about how you have been affected.
Royal Mail state they aim to deliver 93% of first class mail the next day 7% will take longer this is without buyers who are not home to accept delivery.
eBay allow 4% of deliveries to be late the numbers don’t add up the only thing sellers can do to keep TRS long term is extend dispatch times and still post as quick as they can but doing this will lose the sellers premium service discounts so either way eBay will not have to pay discounts on fees the system is all about reducing discounts nothing more.
With eBay stagnating and not growing the only way the management can think of is squeeze more money from its sellers and it will backfire again when they lose more market share to Amazon.
Its time for eBay management to come clean and admit they have make another mistake and not make sellers suffer 18 months before fixing the mistake like they did with the defect fiasco that resulted in costing sellers thousands in buyer abuse and false INR claims.
eBay need to get some experienced users helping with making the decisions as the current leaders clearly don’t have a clue how eBay works and where improvements are needed.
I have been thinking hard over several years about where I go from here. I have up until now been 100% Loyal to ebay. The trouble is that I have built up over the years an enormous stock of Books. My sales on ebay are pathetic. I am 65 years old at current rate of sales on ebay my life expectancy of 84(another 19 years) means that I will never sell all of my stock before I die.
So I have decided to set up a Website and try to list all of my stock. My budget for 2016/7 is to reduce my dependence on ebay to 10% and to work hard to increase my Website Sales from 0% to 90% during this year.
Had ebay been sensible rather than acting like a gang of gangsters I might have decided to stay loyal to ebay. But every day in so many ways ebay continues to act like gangsters and I am sick and tired of it. So this week is going to be the last week I remain loyal to ebay.
Do you think that individual dealers can drive traffic to their own websites to encourage customers to buy direct or will the majority of buyers stick with what they know, i.e. Amazon, Ebay etc?
I’d love to think we could all do this, as we’re in a similar position to you, but I just can’t find a way to get people to use our website over the big ones.
do you think we could all move from myspace and bebo, to a new social network?
at the time it seems almost impossible, but it wont be long until ebay’s as dead as myspace, if they dont buck their ideas up imminently.
since ebay dont sell jack, what do they expect customers to log into ebay for, after they have driven away all the sellers?
I have thought long and hard about how I can get buyers to view my Website when it is up and running. Well I have the name and address of everybody who has ever bought off me on ebay. I know what they bought so I could start with contacting every one of them.
As an example last year one particular title I sold a lot of. So I could start with contacting every one who bought one from me and offer them the 2016 Edition. I also know a lot of customers who bought similar books so I could contact them and perhaps offer them a small discount when buying from my website.
There are a lot of other titles that are associated with titles that I have previously listed and sold to various buyers. I could notify them that I now have in stock other titles on this or associated subjects and again offer a small discount.
Indeed I could make clear to every customer who bought a particular title from me that I would welcome orders from his Friends, Relations, Mates with similar interests and offer them the same small discounts if the title is bought off my Website.
Obviously it will mean a lot of work on my part and indeed cost. But I am sick and tired of being kicked in the nuts and stabbed in the back by ebay. Its not as if I am making a large profit on ebay. I want to retire and move on with my life but the gangsters at ebay seem determined to stop me retiring.
I have also decided not to ever buy again off ebay(except in emergencies). I know that this will harm sellers but if we all started our own websites and gave up on the gangsters of ebay we might just might convince them that we are serious.
You can’t contact a single one of the people who have purchased from you on eBay. They (and more importantly you) agreed to the eBay User Agreement which prohibits you from contacting them unless they’ve given you permission.
Specifically when using eBay you will not “use the contact information of other users for any purpose other than in relation to a specific eBay transaction (which includes using this information to send marketing materials directly to eBay users unless the user has given explicit consent to receiving these materials)”
How many of your previous buyers have given you explicit consent to contact them and how many times do you want to be sued?
The way I feel about ebay it might just be worth while doing it and if ebay sued to take the action all the way to the European Court and make certain that the press is fully informed at every stage. As for affording it I would happily make £500,000 available to my Legal Team to fight each and every Court Case. I might not win but ebay would be dragged through the Courts for years. After all they operate as gangsters and should be held up as such.
eBay wouldn’t sue you.
Each and every single person you contacted might. I know I would (nothing against you personally but I’ve been taking money of spammers for years!)
Am always more than happy to report people to the ICO as well
Have you considered that the lack of sales issue might not be ebay but your own strategy of only listing when it is free? Websites are not free and do have a cost. If you have as many books to sell as you claim then declare that you are a business and open an ebay store giving your books 24/7 exposure. If you don’t try it you will never know.
If 1 in 50 customer of Chris T purchaed a book from him…So be it.
I sold on ebay for a decade, but have not for a few years now, thankfully we retained each and every customers details for years before that. In total nearly 32,000 contact customers of MINE.
Ebay can do what they like, but at the end of the day, a little discount and loyal customers become your loyal customers.
I would recommend each and every one of those pissed off with ebay crap to start the process of settiing up their own website (EKM are good), it takes time and a bit of money, but you will succeed. Our turnover is slightly lower now, but no fees of any volume and we are much happier as a unit.
Oh and Chris D, if I get any person threatening/spammers threatening to sue us, I’ll frefer them to you for advice…….
Thank you Gerry007. I am green with envy at your 32000 customers and their names and addresses. I just wish that I had that many but I don’t. However those that I do have are a good basis for a active Website.
In regard to them suing me Chris D I would hope that for the most part they would recognise that I am trying very hard to provide them with a quality service and a small discount. Also as a Long Time Enthusiast who has proved his worth over many years they would recognise that if I am breaking any rules then it is only for the best reasons.
I must admit that I am surprised that nobody critisised me for calling ebay Gangsters. I often find myself watching such as American Crime Dramas on the TV. One recurring theme is the Gangster and the Protection Racket. The gangster demands money from the small businessman. Who refuses to pay and the gangster sends in the ‘heavy mob’ to torch the business or break the small fingers or blast the businessmans kneecaps. Why is it whenever I see such a programme I always think of ebay???
Then of course there are the Kangaroo Courts where ebay is the Prosecution, Judge and Jury where the Sentence is always predetermined and Defence is not allowed. Let me tell you of one instance that affected me a few years ago. However I would bet that many Sellers have similar stories.
I sold 3 x books to a customer. However at the time my store-room had been stripped out to be redecorated and carpet and the shelving overhauled. In this last case the shelving had been giving problems for a few years. My son had identified the problem and found some components that would strengthen the shelving. Also he was to put in some additional shelving. However it all meant that my Book stock was boxed and scattered around the house. The orders that had come in during this time had all been found except for one book out of the order for 3 books.
As the books were all from one publisher and the owner of the publisher was a friend I sent him an order by post to send the 3 books. Unfortunately he was in Hospital for a few days and as I had addressed the envelope to the Boss his staff had not dealt with it. They put my order on his desk for him to deal with when he got out of Hospital. As soon as he saw it he sent out the Books. But the customer was determined to get both the Books and his money back. ebay as usual took the side of the fraudulent customer and gave me a good kicking.
A little later the customer phoned me up at home gloating that I was being given a good kicking. As far as he was concerned I was ‘Big Business'(I just wish) and he made it clear that it was his ‘God Given Right to Cheat Big Business’. So ebay of course continued to give me a good kicking with no chance of any reprieve. It cost me a (relative) lot of money and time and effort.
As far as Gary and his statement that I only list if it is Free I would refer him to my many ebay Invoices. I do spend a lot on listing fees. Or should I say I have up until now. I am not certain about the future. After all it really is a waste of time and money if ebay takes the money and lists my items way down the list behind grossly overpriced secondhand copies etc as has happened on occasions in the past.
If ebay considers itself to be a serious quality ‘Platform,’ it has to consider how it fits into the Selling and Buying experience. Currently it is the biggest threat to the quality of the ebay experience for both Buyers and Sellers. We as sellers need a little respect and co-operation from ebay. Currently all we get are hoops to jump through, very high charges and a good kicking if anything goes wrong. This is not a quality experience.
Its up to ebay. They only have to read the many postings on Tamebay from many ex-Sellers who all agree on one thing ebay is not a quality experience indeed it provides an almost Medieval Experience. So ebay recognise that you have to listen to and support your real customers who are the Sellers.
Do you have a template as such to use if and when we get such spam communications?
Hi Chris, absolutely I have a template, although it’s seven years since I updated it.
That”s the text/phone/email version. Back in 2009 there was no need for an eBay version as eBay sellers hadn’t started spamming people, but you simply need to point out that you and the seller both agreed to abide by eBay’s User Agreement which prohibits them from contacting you and away you go :-)
Thanks for that.
So do you send this to every ‘company’ spam email for example? And the same again for ‘text’ and ‘phone calls’.
How many do actually 1) reply and 2) with a cheque?
I’d read an article a year or so back, something about a guy setting up an 0845 number and somehow making a few quid.
Does this also apply to Online Retailers who send you ‘promotional emails’. I.e. when you’ve ordered something. e.g. John Lewis you order a Sofa, not tick the box, week later receiving emails from them.
When I NEVER tick the box to say receive the emails.
How do they get away with this?
Retailers are allowed to email when you’ve made a purchase (from a website, not marketplace) as you then have an existing relationship with them. However each email MUST have an opt out in it and they can’t email if they offered you an opt out and you ticked the box at the time of purchase.
Sadly you have to read the small print on the opt out, for instance it’s not unusual to have a “Tick to not receive emails from us, Tick to receive emails from our partners”. In my view both should be tick to receive and if you don’t tick you get no spam, but retailers don’t want it to be too easy for you to opt out ;-)
Thanks for that Clarification Chris.
But, from experience I make sure I am ticking the correct box/es and I still get the emails.
I always say to myself ‘How am I getting these, as I have ticked the box’.
I hate spam. So do millions of other people.
Frankly if I buy from someone on eBay and they start to spam me I complain, waste their time and cost them money.
Imagine if over the years you’d purchased 500 items on eBay and 500 sellers all decided to start spamming you? I imagine you’d be pretty pissed off too, plus it’s against the law and if you’re a reputable business then whether you like it or not them’s the rules.
And for avoidance of doubt ChrisT is very much a business seller, otherwise how would he have 2016 editions to sell to his customers? His statement that “if I am breaking any rules then it is only for the best reasons” is exactly why the rules are there – he doesn’t care about his customers, his “best reasons” are simply one word – “Profits”
i hate how webinterpret keeps getting hold of my details, despite me having a deep loathing for them and everything they do.
any idea how that keeps happening Chris?
I assume the latest bout of spam was from the apple iwatch comp that you never mentioned we’d be spammed for entering?
we also never heard anything about a winner either. was there one?
Ha ha, it appears the verbose Chris T has gone very quiet, truth hurts!
Generally I like and respect Chris D. However to say that I am only interested in Profits is a total and absolute Lie. If I was only interested in Profits I certainly would not be selling Books on ebay.
Over the years I have numerous health problems. In fact so bad are they over so many years that I was forced to give up Wholesaling Books(used to go round the Book Shops and other outlets with a van full of books. Stockcheck the Bookshops and issue them with books to bring their stocks up to a reasonable level). Unfortunately by back(damage at the base of the spine and there is rheumatism in the damage) and my lungs(my lungs are shrinking year on year and are less than half the size that they should be and the Specialist at the Hospital has no idea why)stopped that. The same medical problems stopped me retailing at such as Traction Engine Rallies and other specialist events.
So to try to sell off my existing stock(several thousand books) I started to sell on ebay. Otherwise the only real answer would have been to give up and watch TV all day and exist on benefits.
I had hoped to sell everything in a reasonable time. But that has proved not to be achievable so far mainly because sales on ebay are so low and the costs so high that in 8 years or so I doubt if I have made more than a couple of percent profit. ebay is so bad that I am thinking about going to the specialist events again with my sales stand. The main problem is that the last time I tried this my back broke down yet again and I had to abandon the attempt. Although I am thinking about giving it a try again I am terrified of my back breaking down again as I know just how painful it was last time.
In case anybody thinks that I am interested only in profits may I point out that I am probably one of only a few sellers on ebay who has founded a Charity and I put a great deal of effort and a lot of money into it.
In regard to me stocking 2016 editions. Why shouldn’t I.??? After all the bulk of what I have listed over the years on ebay has been items from my stores. However the 2015, 2016 etc editions are supplied to me on See Safe which means that if I do not sell them I can return them for Full Credit. Also the Publisher is the main one I used to Wholesale For so its a continuation of a relationship that started about 1980.
I want and need to sell off my stock. I estimate that there is about £50,000 of stock in my stores. Some may doubt if I have that much. However when I was doing the Specialist events I would take 20 boxes of books to each event, about 800 books. The books ranged from large hardbacks to small paperbacks. In the average event I would sell more in a weekend than I sell in a month on ebay. Also I had just stocked up for the season when I had to pull out because yet again my back had broken down. It just is not possible to attend events if you cannot trust your back. So I was left with a store-room full of books. I know that I have had fools suggest that I should give away my books. I wonder if I was to suggest to them that I would give away £50,000 of stock if they will do the same.
As to PayPalUser Wrong Again. Are you ever going to get anything right??? I doubt it!!!! Also I do have a life outside of ebay. So if I am not sitting on ebay of Tamebay all day waiting to respond to the latest posting it might mean that I am elsewhere doing something else. As an example in the evening of the 22nd I was attending an Anti EU Political Meeting so I was miles away from my Computer.
I’m wondering why if you’re so disillusioned with eBay why you don’t try Amazon – stick the whole lot on (relatively easy to list if there’s an existing ASIN) and you’ll only pay if you sell…. ?
If it sells on eBay in the mean time just delete it off Amazon.
(And I do have every sympathy with your health problems… just not much for the thought of a new spammer entering the market ;-) )
We’ve lost Top Rated status everywhere except the UK due to late deliveries. This is despite us saying delivery will take up to 21 working days and sending everything by airmail. Buyers leave feedback within the delivery window and still say it’s late but we can’t afford tracking on our items so we’ll just carry on regardless.
Interestingly, we’re showing 1.2% of our US deliveries with tracking uploaded on time. That’s great as we don’t send anything with tracking…
If you are still selling on Ebay you are a fool.
Set up a website or diversify onto other sites.
Use Ebay to get new customers and then enclose a slip with your website details and an introductory discount.
Give Ebay the finger like they’ve given you/us for years.
**** ’em !
We sell on every channel we can including our own site. Ebay is a pain but it’s still a massive marketplace. If you accept that they make the rules and you just adapt then it’s worth sticking with. I’d say you’re a fool if you ignore it.
Can someone advise?
In Order to get a ‘late delivery’ defect removed, do all you need to do is upload the tracking number to the order details?
And nothing else special?
if you have already uploaded tracking at the point of despatch, showing either
a) an acceptance scan within the expected despatch time
b) a delivery scan, or attampted delivery scan, within the delivery estimate time.
then you can have a late delivery defect relating to that transaction removed.
(realisticlly it shouldnt be recorded in the first place, but many are).
I haven’t been uploading tracking to order details.
I have just manually added a tracking number to one of the ‘late delivery’ defects, which was delivered before the date.
Will this get removed?
No, not unles you’re speaking to an excessively nice ebay rep. you need to upload tracking to ebay at the time., which should avoid the defect being generated.
I have been given two defects for late delivery. I was upset by this, since I would drop off the parcels the same day, they would be scanned, and I would then upload the tracking to eBay. How could this possibly go wrong.
Well, it seems that if My Hermes do not deliver on time
(because a customer is not at home, etc), I am responsible. I had believed that eBay would only mark me down if I had not got them to the drop-off point in time.
I telephoned eBay and was told that because My Hermes had not been able to deliver the parcels within eBay’s acceptable limits, the system had picked up that they were late from my uploaded tracking. I was appalled.
Most of my sales come from repeat customers. Many of them have become friends. My feedback shows that I have many happy customers.
I told the representative that I would no longer upload tracking, which seemed to bother her – a lot! She told me that I would not be protected. Protected from what? By not uploading tracking, I am actually protected from eBay!
I informed her that my customers receive the tracking, anyway, since I give My Hermes their email address. My Hermes then inform my customers where their package is. So, basically I am bypassing eBay. The representative was agast when I told her that she should inform her bosses that I am not the only one doing it. Already the system is failing and sellers will find ways to bypass eBay AI systems.
This means that they will not be able to mark me down ever again via tracking. Yes, I may get the odd one or two customers stating that it was late delivery but that is rare. However, if I continued to upload tracking, the system would probably show that the package had arrived late. I would then lose my Top Seller status, which is probably what eBay is after.
If I didn’t know better, I would say the system was designed by a very clever psychologist. Designed to create as much havoc for us and to save eBay as much money as possible.
I simply cannot jump through any more hoops for them. I am exhausted from it all. So, if they remove my TS status, I will just resign myself to it. I think it is time for me to start uploading all my items onto my own Website. I’ve not done it before because all my energy has been taken up with trying to please eBay. I can no longer do that.
if you’ve offered delivery in 3 days, then used a 5-7 day courier, it was never going to arrive in time.
if you offer delivery in 3 days, and use a next-day courier, and they fail to deliver, you may have the defect removed.
Hermes have typical delivery times 2-4 days ParcelShop and Parcel Locker, 3-5 days courier”
and a garbage tracking system.
we’ve just stopped offering for sale anything that goes by Hermes on ebay, its not worth it.
The crazy world of ebay, we have lost TRS status after always having it in the UK and after always being below standard in Germany we are now Top Rated?
How does that work?
I am exactly the same business I was on Friday as I am today but I am considered a bad business now. Also looking at the numbers for Feb I could likely be below standard as the few people that are answering the Yes No question are saying No, if anything as it’s quiet we are dispatching far earlier than any other month.
It’s just crazy and puts me off selling on ebay more and more.
Same here. 57% late dispatch rate USA. We ship everything the same day until 3pm.
Don’t expect eBay to help. We are the same- loads of “late dispatch” to USA. eBay uk won’t help- they pass you over to eBay.com who then tell you it’s a uk problem- you go back to eBay uk only to be cut off. Another hour of my life wasted on eBay nonsense through absolutely no fault of ours.
What a farce
It’s all very well saying we can contact eBay to potentially quibble late delivery cases however.
1. When a customer has completed a feedback tickbox the seller can no longer see the estimated delivery date that eBay had offered the customer.
2. There is no way of seeing when a buyer left a feedback entry whether or not it has a late comment. The feedback just says left in the last month.
Once again the seller is at a disadvantage. Another example of eBay’s two-fingers approach to relationship management.
to see the date that feedback was left use the “reply to feedback” function on ebay. you can search by user name and it shows the date there.
For estimated delivery date – the delivery defect report does show the “Max EDD” which is what ebay uses to determine lateness. I would hope this is the same as what ebay told the buyer, but I would not bet on that.
Trust ebay to hide the info in reply to feedback, still it’s probably better than their usual try ebay.ie!
So that shows up my newest defect in a different light.
Purchased Sun 31/1 (at 3.58am)
Posted untracked 1st Class Mon 1/2
Feedback “AS DESCRIBED FAST SHIP CHEERS” left Weds 2/2
When queried customer says he answered ebays question correctly, item was delivered after 2/2 estimated delivery date.
My handling time is set at 1 day so how could my max estimated delivery date be Tuesday 2/2
Checking the defect error report that shows
Dispatch by date: 02-Feb-2016 00:59:59
Max. EDD: 03-Feb-2016 00:59:59
There must be some sense in there somewhere but I can’t see it
We’ve started questioning buyers on why they left the rating (and blocking them). Most are totally unaware of the meaning of answering no to the on time question. All responders apologise profusely and are horrified at what they’ve done. We encourage them to have a go at ebay customer support from the perspective of a buyer. Ebay management is not listening to ebay sellers, maybe they will listen to ebay buyers. It’s got to be worth a go to get this idiot system stopped before the platform is deserted.
Setting up your website is certainly a good strategy.
I would recommend a couple of platforms to use:
1. Shopify: Easy to setup by yourself and get going, has nice design templates and a host of apps that integrate with marketplaces such as Amazon, eBay and carriers.
2. Woocommerce: Moderate setup difficulty and maintenance by a developer, has nice design templates and a host of apps that integrate with marketplaces such as Amazon, eBay and carriers.
3. Magento: Expensive, you need a top developer for this, has all the features built in, there are numerous extensions that connect to marketplaces such as Amazon, eBay and carriers.
If you don’t want to pay marketplace commissions for the cost of advertising then you can certainly spend money yourself on marketing or hire an agency to do your marketing for you.
Besides building your website, I would advertise on all available marketplaces that makes sense for your business.
I would try all marketing channels that makes sense for your business, be it SEO, Paid search, Instagram, Pinterest, Facebook, Shopping sites etc.
We wrote a post about this topic here: http://blog.veeqo.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-ecommerce-marketing-2016/
Hope it helps.
Probably the worst update yet.
To start with, an Ebay store I work with for two years , has always been Top Rated and has never had a single Negative feedback. Turns over 6 figures a year, and next month will become Above Standard. Monthly turnover Figures will be affected, and I’ve no idea yet, but someone could be laid off. Who knows how the turnover will be affected, because its never happened before.
My own Ebay Store, which I mainly sell crap from my house, with no more than 10 sales a month is going from Above Standard to Top Rated !??!??!
So the Store, which has never had negative feedback, employs people, gives customers an excellent service, is getting penalized because of Royal Mail losing Parcels, delivering late. I know because every item is dispatched on time.
Now if you need to ask a question to a customer who has just purchased an item, and they don’t reply for three days, of course the item is going to be late.
I could go on and on and on, with this new bird brain defect system but I would rather give some advice.
DO NOT rely solely on Ebay for your income. Ebay is great for starting a business, no doubt, but unfortunately in my opinion, it’s foolish to run a business purely on Ebay because at any time they change something that affects your business. Like other people have said on here, sell on different platforms, and multiple websites if possible.
That way if your Ebay sales go do down due to a change in the new bird brain invented Defect system, you will survive.
We have just lost our TSR. We ship the same day and use Royal Mail 48 hour service. I would be interesting to see the percentage of sellers who have lost their TSR due to not having items tracked as I believe losing your TSR by sending items untracked is inevitable with the current system.
We have regained TRS by the skin of our teeth. I was having a detailed look at our report and there seems to be some confusion about the terms. ebay shows a “Max EDD” which I am told means Maximum Estimated Delivery Date. However, I am also told that this isn’t the actual date that something must be delivered, but the day after. So for example, if a buyer purchases on 15 March and it’s going out RM 1st Class, the estimated delivery date is 16 March and the Max EDD is 17 March. So even if the buyer leaves feedback on 17th stating “super fast delivery”, it’s a defect. Further to that, even if the buyer indicates late deliver while leaving feedback on the 16th ebay will not remove the defect unless I have tracking and can PROVE delivery ontime.
I tried politely to understand how it’s OK for ebay to give a defect based on hearsay but will not remove it without proof. Not surprisingly the response was dogmatic and the ebay staff would not answer this question.
All very frustrating. It seems to me increasingly the staff at ebay are angry and argumentative and want to take it out on us. I end up just hanging up and kicking something.
the max EDD has a TIME and date, and if i recall correctly, it’s 1am,
so unless your postie is out delivering on the midnight run, it’s effectively the day before.
the reason it’s this way; is so there isn’t effectively a cut-off time on the actual day of delivery, if your max EDD was at 9pm on the correct day, and it’s delivered at 9.10pm, you’d get a defect. so it’s 1am the folowing day.