Did PayPal hand over my info to HMRC?
There’s been a lot of interest in how the HMRC managed to acquire the names and addresses of online retailers to write to them during the recent HMRC e-marketplaces campaign. We know that eBay and Amazon didn’t hand over our information, but did PayPal?
There had been some speculation as some sellers had unique information registered on their PayPal account that didn’t appear on eBay, Amazon or other online sources. Also being a finance company it might be reasonable for PayPal to share information with the tax authorities.
That’s not the case though. PayPal have told Tamebay that “PayPal has not provided bulk data to HMRC and nor have HMRC requested us to do so“.
That’s a pretty emphatic answer so it would appear that if HMRC have your PayPal registration information it’s from another source. Either they’ve done a test purchase, one of your customers has handed your details to HMRC, or they’ve gathered it from off-line sources and matched it to your online activities.
It’s reasonable for HMRC to suspect some off-line businesses who also trade online may have omitted to declare their online sales, so it’s no surprise that the tax man may have tied the two together.
Regardless how they obtained online seller’s details the questions that remain are how will they follow up the initial letters and of course have they written to a single seller who’s registered as a private seller on eBay? We’ve yet to find just one private seller who got the letter so if that’s you we’d love to hear from in confidence.
Gerry007 says
12:22 am on 13/07/2012
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Re; “PayPal has not provided bulk data to HMRC and nor have HMRC requested us to do so“.
Not wishing to question what Paypal say, but maybe the word here is BULK, AS THEY ARE NOT SAYING THEY HAVE NOT RECEIVED REQUEST[S], JUST NOT A ‘bulk’ request.
Also, we have to wonder how many employees have access to a DVD disc writer[etc]to copy info…..
st georges dragon says
7:23 am on 13/07/2012
its a scare campaign a few letters and adverts no real cost or effort
they just dont have the manpower to chase all those fiddiling , same as the traffic cops cant prosecute every speeding motorist on the M25
Clarky says
9:59 am on July 13th, 2012
No but they do have lots of Cameras and even change the speed limit on some of them as I almost found out last time I ventured “daaaaaan saaaaaaaf”
There is nothing against HMRC using the same process that the spammers do in harvesting details from ebay but I suppose this would only work for business sellers as private sellers do not have their details on show.
Chris Dawson says
10:32 am on July 13th, 2012
Harvesting business seller details is hardly likely to catch the businesses masquerading as private sellers though and they’re the ones most likely to be also dodging tax
Clarky says
11:51 am on July 13th, 2012
Thats the problem.
HMRC will have looked at eBay and assumed that the limits on selling for private accounts didn’t warrant more investigation (of course there is nothing to stop someone having multiple of these and staying below the radar)
As far as eBay/PayPal are concerned they have little to gain from exposing the issue simply because private sellers dodging tax lower prices which makes the platform look good, eBay and PayPal still take their cut so there is no incentive. all they need to do is look like they are doing something. HMRC wont bother with anything that is too much work for too little result as they are understaffed and the cycle continues…
st georges dragon says
12:11 pm on July 13th, 2012
our accountant tells us HMRC work on a cost effective and resource basis,
so why the hell did they send us a letter a Vat registered ltd company WITH BOOKS forTHE LAST 30 years submitted,
plus we take internet payment via paypal only,
so if we were fiddling it would be anywhere other than online,
what is really interesting the letter was sent to our home address. which we dont make available online other than to ebay or PAYPAL
Steve says
10:48 am on 13/07/2012
I was convinced it was Paypal.
Looks like HMRC have been doing allot of digging elsewhere…test purchases and people reporting sellers seem to be the most likely explanation?
ebuyerfb says
5:20 am on 14/07/2012
Just a guess but I would assume the way HMRC knows that you use PayPal is not from PayPal but from your linked bank. Each time you make a withdrawl it will show up in your bank account as being from PayPal. That’s the way the IRS operated until this year where they are now legally required to provide the info.
Chris says
9:02 am on July 14th, 2012
I always wonder about Test Purchases. What names do they use? Is it perhaps “John Smith” type common names or do they perhaps “Invent” names and do their “Invented” names turn out sometimes to be totally unbelievable.
I ask this as I was looking through my customers names and I found a few that just seemed unbelievable. Names of the “No Parent would ever name their child” type names.
Mind you when I named my son and daughter 30 years ago I was accused of being a little over the top but then again I am a Railway Enthusiast and a Great Western Railway Enthusiast to boot. So I used names with a GWR connection. But some of the names I saw amongst my customers were just totally unbeliveable.
radroach says
9:59 am on July 14th, 2012
Judicious use of the PayPal Access card, to bypass a linked bank account, would seem to be the way round this then for those not declaring their online trading – either to withdraw in cash, or use to buy other things.
Chris Dawson says
10:05 am on July 14th, 2012
Won’t make any difference when HMRC come calling. They’re very well clued up and asking you to log into eBay and PayPal and asking you to click here, open this, download this, print this and voila, you’ve just printed your history for them.
You can run, but once they catch you there’s no hiding!
St georges dragon says
10:54 am on July 14th, 2012
could be,
the Revenue have access to all sorts of data, we can only guess at
A friend of ours was once investigated and they had been watched for some time . even knew how often he went to the pub and how many pints he had ordered
Chris says
11:31 am on 14/07/2012
Surely the only way they could learn how often he visited the pub and how many pints he ordered would be to follow him. So somewhere in the HMRC there must be a team(because it would need to work in shifts and at weekends) who are happy to regularly visit the pub and order pints(because you look rather out of place sitting in a pub with a clipboard and not ordering drinks) as their regular work. Also somewhere in HMRC there must be a Manager who is happy to sign the timesheets and expences claims for such activity. Tell me how to you go about applying for such a job?? I only hope that all those dedicated hours in the pub produced worthwhile results rather than just a hangover.
Dave says
1:13 pm on 14/07/2012
People would end up paying higher prices for items so they would loose custom as people would go elsewhere.
It isn’t in Ebay’s favour.It’s a trading website.They are not going to hand over info that will destroy their base.They will lobby hard over it.
Also the share price in the States would go down.One is now sucking you dry and now so is the other.
Derek Duval says
4:34 am on 15/07/2012
I wonder how much resources it would take from HMRC to come after sellers operating from China selling in the UK.
The internet needs a sales Tax adding to every Ebay sale..problem solved.
St georges dragon says
10:58 am on July 15th, 2012
“The internet needs a sales Tax adding to every Ebay sale..problem solved.”
FFS!
there already is!
its called income tax, or Value added tax,
or final value fee, or listing fee, business rates, accountants fees,
or third party software percentage fee,
why not stick two brooms up and sweep the streets to
Derek Duval says
1:48 pm on July 15th, 2012
I would be surprised if you are you trying to tell me that sellers from China are paying UK income taxes or even China income taxes on sales?
st georges dragon says
9:41 pm on July 15th, 2012
an import tax.? is a different thing to a levy on ebay sales
ebuyerfb says
11:42 pm on July 15th, 2012
Good luck getting them to pay any import taxes. Everything I’ve ever bought as a consumer from China came with a $1 valuation on the customs form even though I never requested it to marked as such.