Comments on: PayPal, graphs and the trouble with feedback http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html eBay & ecommerce made easy Mon, 13 Feb 2012 00:17:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Goodrockingtonight http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-57293 Goodrockingtonight Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:26:58 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-57293 One wonders how many buyers mark the seller down when they pay via e-cheque and the seller only dispatches upon clearence of the e-cheque ? One wonders how many buyers mark the seller down when they pay via e-cheque and the seller only dispatches upon clearence of the e-cheque ?

]]> By: theroundearth http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-57290 theroundearth Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:37:18 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-57290 The graph is, on purpose, very deceiving. The small percentage differences between check and Paypal payment scores are shown as they were bigger than 100%, on average. The graph is, on purpose, very deceiving.
The small percentage differences between check and Paypal payment scores are shown as they were bigger than 100%, on average.

]]> By: JP http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-57024 JP Sat, 06 Mar 2010 20:11:53 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-57024 People who ask me to take chqs or bank transfers don't have paypal, are pissed off with paypal or both. They are usually grateful to me for offering alternatives. It's all about communication... When I get the chq I email the customer and set their expectation on clearing times etc . I usually post the item same day I cash it, so to exceed their expectations! People who ask me to take chqs or bank transfers don’t have paypal, are pissed off with paypal or both. They are usually grateful to me for offering alternatives. It’s all about communication… When I get the chq I email the customer and set their expectation on clearing times etc . I usually post the item same day I cash it, so to exceed their expectations!

]]> By: JD http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56868 JD Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:04:40 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56868 Do rabbits collect stamps then? Do rabbits collect stamps then?

]]> By: radams http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56839 radams Fri, 05 Mar 2010 10:30:33 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56839 Sounds a pretty accurate term :) Sounds a pretty accurate term :)

]]> By: northumbrian http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56833 northumbrian Fri, 05 Mar 2010 09:41:30 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56833 certainly is ,after 30 years in business you get to be very technical certainly is ,after 30 years in business you get to be very technical

]]> By: JohnC http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56831 JohnC Fri, 05 Mar 2010 08:32:12 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56831 Is that a technical term for describing paying customers? It seems an odd way to refer to them. Is that a technical term for describing paying customers? It seems an odd way to refer to them.

]]> By: northumbrian http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56830 northumbrian Fri, 05 Mar 2010 08:04:26 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56830 too right jimbo nowt to do with paypal as such ,its the dildos that buy stamps and coins that tend to send cheques , then whinge and moan too right jimbo
nowt to do with paypal as such ,its the dildos that buy stamps and coins that tend to send cheques , then whinge and moan

]]> By: jimbo http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56823 jimbo Thu, 04 Mar 2010 20:19:55 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56823 My hunch would also be that the type of items that people tend to pay for with a cheque are also the kind of items that attract low DSR's eBay could do a nice promotion: Boost your DSR's don't sell second hand goods. My hunch would also be that the type of items that people tend to pay for with a cheque are also the kind of items that attract low DSR’s

eBay could do a nice promotion: Boost your DSR’s don’t sell second hand goods.

]]> By: EventHorizon1984 http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56822 EventHorizon1984 Thu, 04 Mar 2010 20:05:03 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56822 Ultimately this presumes that PayPal's figures aren't massaged to boost their ratings and downgrade everyone else's. Notice there's an asterisk attached to these numbers? "* DSR scores calculated for total eBay UK sales paid with PayPal vs. eBay UK sales not paid with PayPal (Nov 2008 – Jan 2009)" 3) When a buyer doesn't leave a DSR score, is this not counted, or is this considered a 0 or 1 ala Rob Chestnut neutrals equal negative? 2) This is not a 1 year or lifetime score. It's taken during the Christmas shopping season. Expectations are high. So are returns. 1) The "not paid with PayPal" can include non-paying buyers, reversed transactions, fraud, etal. Technically any PayPal transaction that's reversed is "not paid with PayPal". That chart could equally indicate a trend toward an increase in bad transactions, with payment type being Irrelevant. Unless PayPal breaks down in detail how these statistics were derived, it's not a great idea to take those numbers at face value. /* "Even if you can't find a source of demonstrable bias, allow yourself some degree of skepticism about the results as long as there is a possibility of bias somewhere. There always is." Darrell Huff, How to Lie with Statistics Ultimately this presumes that PayPal’s figures aren’t massaged to boost their ratings and downgrade everyone else’s.

Notice there’s an asterisk attached to these numbers?

“* DSR scores calculated for total eBay UK sales paid with PayPal vs. eBay UK sales not paid with PayPal (Nov 2008 – Jan 2009)”

3) When a buyer doesn’t leave a DSR score, is this not counted, or is this considered a 0 or 1 ala Rob Chestnut neutrals equal negative?
2) This is not a 1 year or lifetime score. It’s taken during the Christmas shopping season. Expectations are high. So are returns.
1) The “not paid with PayPal” can include non-paying buyers, reversed transactions, fraud, etal. Technically any PayPal transaction that’s reversed is “not paid with PayPal”. That chart could equally indicate a trend toward an increase in bad transactions, with payment type being Irrelevant.

Unless PayPal breaks down in detail how these statistics were derived, it’s not a great idea to take those numbers at face value.

/*

“Even if you can’t find a source of demonstrable bias, allow yourself some degree of skepticism about the results as long as there is a possibility of bias somewhere. There always is.”
Darrell Huff, How to Lie with Statistics

]]> By: Sue Bailey http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56813 Sue Bailey Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:40:00 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56813 <i>want higher DSR’s, don’t take cheques </i> Yup. As I said in the penultimate paragraph. want higher DSR’s, don’t take cheques
Yup. As I said in the penultimate paragraph.

]]> By: BigPoppa http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56812 BigPoppa Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:37:08 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56812 Yes, the feedback system needs re-jigging. However, the chart is still correct, buyers that pay with Paypal, leave higher DSR's, as to why etc is anyones guess, but that's not the point Paypal are making. The message is clear, want higher DSR's, don't take cheques. Choice for buyers is not always a good thing. Yes, the feedback system needs re-jigging. However, the chart is still correct, buyers that pay with Paypal, leave higher DSR’s, as to why etc is anyones guess, but that’s not the point Paypal are making.

The message is clear, want higher DSR’s, don’t take cheques. Choice for buyers is not always a good thing.

]]> By: JohnC http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56811 JohnC Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:27:29 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56811 So what is your typical cheque payer? I'd guess they're older than the ebay average user, perhaps more (small c)conservative. Is ebay expecting us to believe that such people are less patient and more likely to trash DSRs than other users! Don't believe it for a moment, it's scare marketing by paypal. So what is your typical cheque payer? I’d guess they’re older than the ebay average user, perhaps more (small c)conservative.

Is ebay expecting us to believe that such people are less patient and more likely to trash DSRs than other users!

Don’t believe it for a moment, it’s scare marketing by paypal.

]]> By: Glenn http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56808 Glenn Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:19:20 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56808 This chart simply shows that Feedback can be manipulated and is not a fair system. What annoys me the most however is that ebay / Paypal are trying to manipulate sellers. Why MUST sellers offer Paypal? Why cant we use other payment gateways? If your ebay account is suspended for any reason it’s possible to continue trading on your own web site and still accept still paypal payments. However if your paypal account is suspended then you cant accept ebay payments or paypal payment from your own shop sales. So perhaps sellers who have their own web site (which is a growing number) should consider alternative payment methods. I’ve got an alternative payment gateway lined up – just in case. Where is the competition? Talk about a closed shop! This chart simply shows that Feedback can be manipulated and is not a fair system.
What annoys me the most however is that ebay / Paypal are trying to manipulate sellers.

Why MUST sellers offer Paypal?

Why cant we use other payment gateways?

If your ebay account is suspended for any reason it’s possible to continue trading on your own web site and still accept still paypal payments. However if your paypal account is suspended then you cant accept ebay payments or paypal payment from your own shop sales.
So perhaps sellers who have their own web site (which is a growing number) should consider alternative payment methods.

I’ve got an alternative payment gateway lined up – just in case.

Where is the competition? Talk about a closed shop!

]]> By: Sue Bailey http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56807 Sue Bailey Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:55:23 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56807 Interesting, thanks Caroline. Anyone else finding this? Interesting, thanks Caroline. Anyone else finding this?

]]> By: Sue Bailey http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56806 Sue Bailey Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:54:37 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56806 There's nothing to say that private sellers *aren't* included, Stu, so you may be right.... <i>private sellers are more likly to offer anything else rather than have to take paypal </i> I did have a look at this. PayPal has to be offered on all eBay UK listings except some Vehicles, Services and Property categories. PayPal is automatically included as a payment option and can't be removed when you list. I had a good dig around for sellers saying that they didn't really take PayPal and so on - and actually, there were very few listings pulling that trick as far as I could see. Of course, it's possible that sellers are listing with PayPal and not notifying buyers til the listing has ended that it's cheque only - but I can't honestly imagine that that is that widespread. There’s nothing to say that private sellers *aren’t* included, Stu, so you may be right….

private sellers are more likly to offer anything else rather than have to take paypal
I did have a look at this. PayPal has to be offered on all eBay UK listings except some Vehicles, Services and Property categories. PayPal is automatically included as a payment option and can’t be removed when you list.

I had a good dig around for sellers saying that they didn’t really take PayPal and so on – and actually, there were very few listings pulling that trick as far as I could see.

Of course, it’s possible that sellers are listing with PayPal and not notifying buyers til the listing has ended that it’s cheque only – but I can’t honestly imagine that that is that widespread.

]]> By: Urban33 http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56805 Urban33 Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:49:19 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56805 When I read this my first thought was the effect that private sellers have on these figures. Mostly private sellers are more likly to offer anything else rather than have to take paypal as it's more they loose. And maybe this is often half the problem with ebay that the figures have private sellers in so they will alter the results...I could be wrong tho and they are not included before anyone says! When I read this my first thought was the effect that private sellers have on these figures. Mostly private sellers are more likly to offer anything else rather than have to take paypal as it’s more they loose. And maybe this is often half the problem with ebay that the figures have private sellers in so they will alter the results…I could be wrong tho and they are not included before anyone says!

]]> By: Caroline http://tamebay.com/2010/03/paypal-graphs-and-the-trouble-with-feedback.html#comment-56804 Caroline Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:41:51 +0000 http://tamebay.com/?p=11500#comment-56804 This is the reason I'm considering going completely free P&P. At the moment it's free with a spend of £10 or more, I have a roughly 60-40 split of customers who pay P&P and customers who don't. The 3s & 4s percentage for customers who pay P&P is nearly double that of those who don't, across all four markers, not just the P&P one. This is the reason I’m considering going completely free P&P. At the moment it’s free with a spend of £10 or more, I have a roughly 60-40 split of customers who pay P&P and customers who don’t. The 3s & 4s percentage for customers who pay P&P is nearly double that of those who don’t, across all four markers, not just the P&P one.

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