Let us be excellent : what I'd do with eBay, part 4
27/01/2010 at 16:30
At the weekend, I mentioned my thoughts about how feedback should evolve to a couple of sellers. Both were shocked: if there were no visibility penalty attached to bad feedback, they said, why would sellers care about it?
This shows just how far we’ve moved from where we started. In the olden days, a neg was shameful. Sellers worried about how non-positive feedback would make them look to future buyers. That’s how it should be: it’s feedback doing what it’s good at. One neg: meh; 100 negs: bad. Let the buyers be the judges.
That’s not to say that eBay shouldn’t be concerned with buyer protection and seller performance, but they’ve believed their own hype too much. Marking a seller down for excessive P&P charges does nothing to help the buyer who’s been overcharged. Negging a seller for non-receipt of your parcel doesn’t get you your money back. We need real customer service for buyers.
Most of the time, this should be and is provided by sellers. eBay aren’t helping here, I have to say: their ugly clunky messaging system and confusing seller FAQs page should be replaced with something that actually works.
But there are times when, for whatever reason, buyer and seller can’t or don’t resolve the matter between them. And that’s when eBay should step in: unlike almost any other site on the net, they’re an automatic third-party who can resolve issues that otherwise would end in stalemate. eBay have almost got this idea. They’re edging towards it with new policies like the no-fault refund, where they stand the refund when neither seller nor buyer is at fault. But then they undermine it by allowing the appalling customer service offered by some Outlet sellers – and by not enforcing basic legalities on all their sellers.
While the site is full of listings that say “I’m not responsible for items lost in the post”, of business sellers illegally claiming to be private sellers, and of even eBay’s own policies being flagrantly violated on the site, we won’t achieve this, of course. But these things could be easily resolved too. eBay France can flag up sellers who are listing too much (either in quantity or money) to be private sellers, so eBay UK can do it too. If eBay can spot sellers using certain brand names or the phrase “as new” or rude words and flag those listings for review, it can also spot sellers saying “I am not responsible for items lost in the post”. And if it can introduce a policy saying that all books have to have free postage, then it can damn well enforce that policy instead of letting sellers get away with saying “it says free postage but the real P&P fee is a fiver” (and even if that example turns out to be out of date in the next few days, the principle still stands).
In the first draft of this post, I wrote this:
eBay have lost their way. They’ve over-complicated things to such an extent that I’m not sure they can find their way back to doing what they should be doing: bringing buyers and sellers together. I think they’ve forgotten that part of their raison d’etre. The site now is like one of those listings written by a seller who’s determined that no bad situation will go un-covered by their terms and conditions, and you see great archaeological layers of every single problem they’ve ever had, taking up a foot of more of scrolling down the screen.
Then in the earnings call last Wednesday, John Donahoe used the phrase “bringing buyers and sellers together” two or three times. I start to think there’s hope that we could – not go back to the old-style marketplace of Meg’s twice-yearly fee increase, seller strikes, feedback blackmail and the rest, but move forward to a new way of eBaying, where we celebrate the simplicity of excellence.
We need to go back to basics. Dump DSRs. Enforce the law (not the eBay version, but the actual law). Help buyers when they need it. Stay out of the way when they don’t. And maybe that way, we can go on for another fifteen years.
Is that it? No, not quite….






JD says
5:50 pm on 27/01/2010
Fully agree!
Got criticised by Steve AW for saying ‘keep it simples’ on a previous thread so will go the whole hog.
Message to eBay:
Keep it simple stupid.
Steve Antony Williams says
1:21 pm on January 28th, 2010
Well, it wasn’t so much a criticism of you personally as a case of a suggestion of “pot calling a kettle black”, as you were discussing English
JD says
4:05 pm on January 28th, 2010
Steve, I was actually discussing impaired mental capacity and using the posting content as evidence. I admitted my own possible personal impairment in my reply!!
Lynne says
5:57 pm on 27/01/2010
I would love to see the law being enforced, Distance Selling Regulations actually being abided by, sellers telling the truth.
You know, straightforward vanilla stuff like that
Bigpoppa says
7:37 pm on 27/01/2010
I agree regards to the Distance selling regs…Even today, the deal of the day “ReDoute” have in their returns info:
You have 14 days from the receipt of your order in which to return any item to us. They must be in their original condition. Once we have received your returned goods, we will refund the item cost in full, using the same method by which you paid for them.
If a product is faulty, damaged or incorrect we will refund the item cost and delivery charge.
This is in clear conflict with the DSR, why are they allowed to do this. Sometimes I think I may as well join them, I could make a fortune by not refunding postage…But then I remember that I have integrity.
Jimbo says
8:42 pm on January 27th, 2010
Whose responsibility is it to ensure that the “Distance selling regulations” are enforced?
Are overseas sellers trading on eBay.co.uk obliged to comply with the “Distance selling regulations”?
Does eBay eBay have a clause that sellers in the UK are obliged to comply with the “Distance selling regulations”?
David Brackin says
11:19 am on January 28th, 2010
“Whose responsibility is it to ensure that the “Distance selling regulations” are enforced?”
Trading Standards is your first port of call. They will follow up with the TS local to the seller and contact.
jimbo says
3:36 pm on January 28th, 2010
Trading standard only seem to be interested in post sales activity.
Shouldn’t trading standards be taking a more pro active approach with online retailers and eBay?
JD says
4:07 pm on January 28th, 2010
Where would they start?
northumbrian says
4:26 pm on January 28th, 2010
trading standards are understaffed and over worked
they go for the easiest or the sexiest
or the most headlined
why do you think their are so many double glaziers ,tarmacers, block paviors, mobile phone shops,tree loppers etc etc etc
still trading and bbc still have watch dog programs
David Brackin says
5:44 pm on January 28th, 2010
I can confirm that Trading Standards are interested in terms and condition prior to sale if they receive a complaint.
Our local TS is a great guy – very helpful. We redesigned our Ts&Cs with his input when we last updated them for Distance Selling compliance.
jimbo says
5:55 pm on January 28th, 2010
Well my local trading standards will tell you that it is the reponsibility of trading standards at the sellers location and you need to contact them. If you have not actually made a purchase (and had a problem) I think you are going to get very little joy out of reporting anything to trading standards.
How about international sellers who sales are being made through a UK market place? Do they need to comply with the Distance selling regulations?
David Brackin says
7:53 pm on January 28th, 2010
My experience of Trading Standards differs. It is the responsibility of the team local to the seller to make the call and correct the issue, but your local office should take your complaint and then pass it over to them.
I have seen a complaint where no purchase was made get passed along the chain and be dealt with like this.
If your local TS isn’t doing its job properly then make your complaints to your elected council.
jimbo says
8:10 pm on January 28th, 2010
So if trading standards are so good how come eBay is rife with illigal terms & conditions? Why is UK law not being enforced on eBay.co.uk?
Sue Bailey says
8:12 pm on January 28th, 2010
QED
Bigpoppa says
9:11 pm on 27/01/2010
eBay have a policy that governs “unfair seller terms” but not sure if one actually covers DSR specifically.
In my view it’s the sellers responsibility though.
Bigpoppa says
3:26 pm on 28/01/2010
Again today ebay deal of the day, has a clock. The sellers return policy says:
“we will refund your initial outlay excluding postage costs.”
…really?
Come on eBay, this is basic stuff. If you want to protect buyers as much as you keep telling us you do, Why not start by slapping these so called businesses ripping buyers off for their postage. They give us online traders all a bad name.
(they have very good feedback though
)
Sue Bailey says
3:29 pm on January 28th, 2010
they have very good feedback though
Be grateful for small mercies, ehh?!
board_surfer says
10:55 pm on 28/01/2010
I have all the trading standards I need between my ears.
Debs says
3:18 am on 30/01/2010
Can anybody quote the exact legal wording which states that postage costs should be refunded?
As people are saying that some outlet sellers break the law by not refunding postage I would be interested to see how this law is phrased.
Sue Bailey says
3:29 am on January 30th, 2010
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm
You really need to read the whole thing (it’s not exactly long), but the most relevant paragraph is 14.1
On the cancellation of a contract under regulation 10, the supplier shall reimburse any sum paid by or on behalf of the consumer under or in relation to the contract to the person by whom it was made free of any charge, less any charge made in accordance with paragraph (5).
Obviously you’ll be familiar with the OFT’s leaflet on the subject
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf
which spells this out a bit more clearly:
paragraph 3.48
The DSRs require you to refund any money paid by or on behalf of
the consumer in relation to the contract to the person who made the
payment. This means the full price of the goods, or deposit or prepayment
made, including the cost of delivery. The essence of
distance selling is that consumers buy from home and receive goods
at home. In these circumstances, almost every case of home
shopping will involve delivery of the goods ordered and so delivery
forms an essential part of the contract.
(emphasis theirs)
Debs says
4:16 am on January 30th, 2010
Thank you