PowerSeller suspended for low DSR feedback attack
by Chris Dawson
A Silver PowerSeller who purchased from their competitor in order to attack their feedback with low DSRs has had their account suspended by eBay. The PowerSeller traded in the Clothes, Shoes and Accessories category and their account has been suspended from the site.
Ever since feedback was first introduced people have worried about competitors “feedback bombing” them with negatives to destroy customer confidence. With the introduction of DSRs it became an invisible threat and then with the launch of the Top Rated Seller program the threat to a businesses sales became even greater.
In reality though feedback attacks are very few and far between amongst competitors. It’s much more likely a seller will suffer at the whim of an unhappy customer than a competitor maliciously buy in order to leave poor feedback.
eBay are closely monitoring feedback and will take action with buying or selling restrictions when feedback abuse is identified. They are also sending emails to buyers leaving a larger number of low DSRs than average to educate them on how feedback is valued. The email will appear in My Messages as well as being sent to the registered email address.
The email starts out “We noticed that you’ve left positive Feedback with low Detailed Seller Ratings (DSRs) for several sellers lately. There may be times when this is appropriate, but in most cases DSRs and the overall rating should be consistent. More importantly, leaving low DSRs with positive Feedback could be viewed as an attempt to intentionally hurt a seller’s reputation.” and goes on to add “You aren’t allowed to leave inaccurate Feedback just to harm a seller’s reputation. If we find that this is happening, we’ll take action.“
Things to do if you suspect a feedback attack
If you are concerned about a feedback attack, either actual or potential, talk to your account manager. There is also a link to report suspected feedback abuse and you’re encouraged to use it, even if the fear turns out to be unwarranted. If it turns out that a competitor is intentionally feedback wrecking and the buyer account is linked to a selling account eBay will skip education steps and move straight to account restrictions as well as removing low DSRs.
eBay say that they’ve only seeing a trickle of cases where feedback abuse is occurring and that the fear is, at least in most cases, greater than the reality. However they are stepping up the sanctions they impose for feedback abuse and will police feedback abuse strongly. eBay are determined to protect Top Rated Sellers from attack by competitors.
If you have any concerns about feedback abuse report it as soon as possible, even if you just “think” a competitor may be intending to leave low DSRs. You concerns will be taken seriously.
56 Responses on "PowerSeller suspended for low DSR feedback attack"
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The full text of that email is in a post on the Business Board here:
http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?threadID=1200323658&tstart=0&mod=1258188591521
I’m not really surprised that the OP thought they were being told off. I thought personally that the whole point of DSRs was to allow you to mark down one unsatisfactory part of the transaction without having to leave a negative or neutral. e.g. to say “I was basically happy except they overcharged me for second class postage” or similar.
Feedback attacks aside, if eBay are now going to “tell buyers off” for leaving honest feedback, the system has become even more farcical than it already was.
Does seem odd if it was the one and only time that buyer had left a low DSR, after all if no one ever gets any low ones then everyone will be a TRS
I left 5 stars for three of the ratings and a 2 for postage. It is the only time I have ever left a 2. I always leave 5 stars for all other transactions.
Someone is incorrect: either the buyer does leave 1s and 2s more often than they say, or eBay are not restricting the sending of these emails to buyers who leave a higher proportion of low DSRs than the average.
This brings me back to a previous comment.
Why is it that that my post and packing DSR is the only one causing me any concern, when all my items are Free post.
Some buyers are making me down on postage cost – heck it’s Free – what more can I do?
The whole structure of DSR’s is nightmare.
PS- I only use this ID because I have been the victim of malicious purchasing and feedback. Powerseller Support removed the offending feedback and I received FFVs, but the Seller (yes a seller) got off scot free and is still selling.
This individual was quite simply a con artist of the first order and the fact that they are still trading is testament to just how seriously ebay take it.
Bottom line Guys – I work up to horror of malicious buying activity, threats and abuse and what did ebay do?
Nowt !
I admire your faith in ebay, but my own personal experience left much to be desired.
I have to admit I left a 1 for a ‘free’ P&P item once, with positive but factual feedback. I bought some wireless microphones and they were basically just shoved in a poly bag with no protection apart from the plastic case they came in.
On one of them the corner was badly damaged, only cosmetically but it could have been far worse because of the lack of packaging. After letting the seller know, they simply replied ‘thanks for letting us know’, so they got a 1 for P&P from me, which under the circumstances I think was entirely fair.
I didn’t get that email from eBay either, although it was a few months ago.
Joe, it’s clearly not fair to leave the 1 rating for P&P charge in this instance, as the P&P was free. Item as described or Communication could be the DSRs you mark down. This just highlights the problem with the DSR system. Buyers need to be educated.
It’s simply too easy for a misplaced or misguided DSR to lose a business a lot of money through not making TRS.
In my opinion, before a customer is allowed to damage a business surely they should have to prove that the service resulted in a 1/2 DSR.
I don’t need educating thanks. We will have to disagree because in this instance I feel that the packaging was inadequate.
I would rather pay for P&P and ensure the item gets to me in one piece. The sellers communication didn’t warrant a low rating, the item itself was as described, and I politely informed the seller that the packaging was not up to the job, giving them a chance to improve.
In my judgement (and it was my purchase, my money etc) I feel that a low rating for P&P was justified because of a) the way the item was packaged and b) the way the seller responded.
I have to say I agree with Mark. I don’t think the P&P DSR deserved to be marked down in this case.
My opinion is that if you wanted to drive home your thoughts about the packaging, you could have perhaps left it in your feedback comments. Fact is, the packaging (however poor) was free. Perhaps if the seller didn’t feel obliged by eBay to give it away, he may have been more inclined to buy decent packaging. Just my two cents worth.
Free or not, the packaging sounds woefully inadequate, and how else is a buyer supposed to grade post and PACKING charges, if not with the P&P rating?
From memory, this is the exact reason that eBay state for not automatically applying a 5 star rating for free P&P items.
And I too think that eBay are quite right on this.
If a seller uses packaging that is not fit for purpose then the seller has not fulfilled his/her obligations to the buyer.
The question is
How reasonable were the P&P charges?
Maybe we need another criterion about “was the packaging okay?” ]:)
I’m in Canada and sell mostly to my neighbors to the south, as well as 29 other countries. I too often receive low marks for timeliness of shipping, and cost of postage. This confuses me! I state at every opportunity that it takes 12 business days for shipping, that’s what Canada Post says. However even when the item arrives exactly to the day newer buyers say it took too long. After I get the parcel to the post office I have no more control than you do over the postal system. I charge 50 cents for handling, and the exact amount Canada Post charges me for shipping that item, I refund any overages. The buyer knows the cost of shipping before paying and can easily cancel the transaction if it is too much. Why do buyers complete the sale and then hit me with low marks for cost of shipping when it was completely in their control to buy or not to buy – that is the question……. I’m not sure DRS are thought through for international sales, as many people use the standards of their own countries postal system to judge others.
All that said, not a thing I can do about it but I feel a bit like a target. Mermaid142
I’m encouraged to hear that eBay have taken this action. But I’m curious as to whether it was eBay or the victim of the scam who actually did the detective work.
From what I’ve read on the PS board, it seems that ebay only act in these cases after continuous pestering from victims who have made it absolutely clear to eBay that they’ve been targeted by a competitor using a buyer’s account.
To be honest, I’m amazed that I still have my ‘rosette’. I’ve been waiting for a competitor to come along and destroy my TRS status from the day that TRS was first introduced.
I’m still convinced that it’s only a matter of time.
With the anonymity of DSRs, this is always going to be a concern.
It is good to hear this example and that it is being policed more actively now, but the sheer volume of transactions means that not all can be examined. For a long time we have noticed inconsistent numbers of 1s and 2s vs overall feedback in some accounts.
We work closely with our account manager and he’s been very good at helping us work through feedback issues, but we are emailing him probably 5-10 times a week about them at the moment.
However, the best disinfectant is sunshine: why not tie the pos, neutral and neg to the DSRs — one 1 or 2 and its neutral, more than one and it’s a neg.
Then as sellers we can focus on who is unhappy and what we need to do to improve and make them happy.
It is rife in the sports category! Wish they would do something there, it is well known and reported.
we list, AND we sell ,we give good service,
we dont get bogged down ,and paranoid by feedbck or dsrs or TOP SELLER,
IF WE DONT sell we dont list and thats ebays problem not ours
same here – we list , we sell , we give a top quality service.
For 2 months we haven’t had TRS , so what have we done ? Stepped up things elsewhere – sold elsewhere , website , offline , and they are all doing nicely as a result of that effort.
In 4 days time we look like finally getting our rosette , but not having it for 2 months has been a backhanded present. Thank you ebay
Nice work
Personally I have simply stopped giving anyone DSR marks.
I agree that packing should be capable of withstanding a bit of rough handling within the post.
The problem however is that the DSR rating applies to Postage and packaging charges.
It doesn’t state anything about the actual packaging. If the packaging is insufficient and the product becomes damaged then the buyer should inform the seller and ask for a refund and if need be open a dispute.
I’m sure that any seller finding themselves consistently making refunds because the packaging was insufficient they would very soon be looking to improve packing materials.
Leaving a low DSR doesn’t solve anything. The seller will keep on using the same packaging, being none the wiser, and the buyer has a bad buying experience.
It is totally inappropriate to give a seller a low DSR on Postage and packaging charges, when there is NO Postage and packaging charge.
Buyers and sellers should work together to fix problems. I have previous had buyers tell me that a CD track listing was incorrect or that there is an error within a listing. I thank them and fix the problem.
Isn’t this the way we should be heading, instead of leaving anonymous DSR’s
Funny that & thinking about it buyers use to tell us more if there was a prob’ in a listing but no one has said anything lately…………..so either we’ve ot it right now
OR all the goodies have left the bay 
“Your concerns will be taken seriously”
Oooh look a flying pig ….
Just stumbled across a thread on the PowerSeller board which provides a bit more weight to the argument that eBay are taking this seriously.
For those without a PowerSeller log in, the opening post reads:
a couple of weeks or so ago I emailed PS support regarding 4 low dsr’s (1 in each category) that seemed suspicious to me. Got a cut and paste type answer and decided to forget it.
Yesterday they disappeared without as much as a by your leave
No communication from eBay so far as to why, but hey never look a gift horse… 
And another one on the same thread:
PS support have just got back to me, someone has managed to leave me bad DSR’s (and i know who it is). Ebay have said this has been a mistake and removed this chaps feedback. I despatched the goods 24hs after payment and he received 3 days after that…….quicker than the advert even states……what a complete idiot. Ebay have now removed this and told me my DSR’s will return within the next 24 hrs.
I always wonder how a seller even a Top Rated seller can know who leaves a bad DSR .
Chris well done for spotting and identifying the culprit. Just goes to show that DSRs are being misused.
The problem is high volume sellers, or sellers without you knowledge get hit with low DSR’s and by the time they are noticed, it is too late to identity who left them and do anything about it.
This clearly show that the system is flawed.
Now considering that DSR’s impact upon TSR status there is potentially a lot of money at stake. Ebay keep promoting Trust and safety, but by your own example they are leaving it to sellers to police the system.
How can sellers Trust a system which penalises you without any opportunity to identify who has left low DSR and appeal.
The lack of Trust by sellers will filter through the entire system and the very purpose of Feedback will become more flawed than it already is.
I regularly get customer service questionnaires from ebay and my Trust of ebay score is always Low.
It would be interesting to see a poll of Tamebay readers as to the level of Trust amongst us(Bearing in mind that you have a lot of professional sellers within your readers)
I should point out that identifying the culprit was nothing to do with me and it didn’t affect any of my accounts.
How much time do eBay (and sellers) waste on feedback?
Now they’ve created a system whereby anonymous feedback can directly negatively affect item placement in search, and fees charged to sellers. Is anyone surprised it’s being misused?
Scrap feedback entirely, and let us get on with selling.
“If you are concerned about a feedback attack, either actual or potential, talk to your account manager.”
What about the huge number of Bronze and Silver sellers – not everyone has an account manager.
Or is Tamebay only read by Gold level PS’s and above?
we dont have an account manager
cos they a pain in the arse pests
Every PowerSeller has access to PowerSeller support, if you don’t have an account manager then PowerSeller support will also take your concerns seriously
Chris
I’m a daily and avid reader of Tamebay, but I have to tell you that PowerSeller support do not take sellers concerns seriously.
The last dozen or so emails to PS Support have failed to answer my questions and have been a rough cut and paste botch job.
I suspect your status as co author of Tamebay gives you an edge that us mere mortal PowerSellers can only dream of.
Amazon support leaves ebay PS support standing
The best advice I can suggest is you ring them, not email. I gave up emailing support years ago for the same reason.
I second Whirly – ring them. It’s a lot easier to clarify things on the telephone and saves a whole load of cut and paste answers and emailing back and forth with possibly different people answering each email that you send.
As for getting an edge because of TameBay…. Did you hear about the famous incident where Sue emailed PowerSeller support about her account and got a reply “Here’s a great link which answers your question”? It was a link to an article on TameBay that Sue herself had written
(And no it didn’t answer her question which just made it even funnier
)
That’s the best I have heard for ages – thanks for that.
Mind you it’s nice to know that they are reading Tamebay. Hopefully they will improve, although it seems unlikely.
It seems that you both echo my comments that PS is naff. I have tried the telephone route and wasn’t very impressed. I don’t think anybody in PS support has ever sold anything – they seem clueless.
To be honest I get most my info from Tamebay and the boards
Hey, that’s my comedy act you’re nicking!
I think PS telephone support is largely the same as most big companies who use a call centre, in general the operators lack knowledge and basic skills, but sometimes you get the odd one who is really switched on and helpful.
It really depends on who you get on the other end of the phone.
My personal experience of PS support via email has been terrible.
Have to agree with Happy Days, I was one of the biggest sellers on eBay and my experiences with PS support (and most of the AM’s we had) was very bad.
biggest in what? steve
feedback,
or sales, or profit
Didn’t you know Steve is over 7 foot tall
I used to work with Steve, he had 2 accounts over 100000 and umpteen other accounts also successful. Not bad overall, and deserves the description of biggest in my opinion
cant have been that successful
poweseller support is a 1000% better than they were have contacted them twice in the last 12 months and they were very good,
my comment about account managers still stands ,they are a pain in the bum
our experiance of them in the past is they are little better than tele sales reps,
we dont want one or need one
North, that very much depends on the AM themselves, and on what eBay are trying to do at any one time. I’ve had telesales reps, invisible persons and “computer says no” people, but I’ve also had AMs who’ve been absolutely superb and have given me amazing support exactly as needed (Maria Demayer may take a bow at this point
).
And, of course, like any insurance policy, you hope not to have to need it.
insurance policy bit makes me think it may just be a good idea, that is if I can get the silly buggers not to ring me pestering me about things I have already read about on tamebay
you never know an account manager might even be able to do something about the 11 x 1 dsrs that are spoiling the top seller thing,from the same plonker, which ebay are counting as seperate
I guess we just got lucky, my PAM doesn’t hassle us and always answers the questions if and when I need answers quickly.
Big shout out to Amy, lovely girl.
Lowly silvers don’t get AM.
Ringing PS Support is a lottery.
Can usually tell quite quickly how lucky you got.
Got lucky today, got Amy.
First class!!
My number 1 tip for PS support is as soon as you find someone good add them to your Skype!
Firstly you can see if they’re online and working, secondly you can “jump the queue” and drop them an instant message chat and you query is then on their computer screen begging to be dealt with.
Also I have to give a big shout out to Jerry and Connor who’ve both been brilliant when I’ve needed support in the past
People moan about Ebay Support, but it is lightyears ahead of what it used to be. And has anyone ever tried contacting Amazon? It’s definately an area where they could learn from eBay.
to be fair to ebay
its unusual if I find the need to contact ebay support , so that tells me they are doing their bit ,
they are not there to hold my hand
Amazon support is pefect, they even call you! eBay is good too though.
Bigpoppa, do you have an Account Manager at Amazon? Or a phone number for support?
6 years trading on ebay feedback over 10000 99.9 percent dont make tsr do not waste my time looking just concentrate on the best service i can turnover dropped like a stone thank god we still have our retail,wholesale and manufacturing our sheepskin slippers after 30 years ebays loss as our effort goes elsewhere
one seller we know bungs 25p on top of every postage and sends thousands of low value items out week
to lower postage in an attempt to gain TSR would bankrupt them
I agree, to what you have posted here. I have myself had instances, where the transaction I did with a powerseller on ebay have got reversed (unnecessarily?)
Nevertheless, it is always good for the end user, as eBay, has made its policies more stringent.