Would you mind awfully paying for your eBay purchase?
28/10/2009 at 15:47
Today we have our first look at the text of eBay’s new automatic unpaid item reminders. These are now sent out automatically by eBay four days after a BIN or the end of an auction, for any listing that has not been marked paid for (either via PayPal or manually by the seller). Here’s what they say:
We opened an unpaid item case for [your item], because the seller either hasn’t recorded your payment or didn’t receive it yet.
Your payment must be received no later than [8 days to the second after the listing ended], to avoid an unpaid item being recorded on your account (and possible restrictions).
If you’ve simply forgotten to pay, please pay now so that we can close this case and the seller can dispatch the item to you.
If you can’t reach the seller or there’s been a mistake, don’t worry – you can appeal tosue remove the unpaid item after the case closes.
Click to embiggen
Leaving aside the typo in the last sentence (I can assure you, appealing to Sue will not get your strike removed…), this email just illustrates what a farce the “unpaid item” process is.
- eBay are sending this email but they’re not even sure your item hasn’t been paid for. Perhaps you posted a cheque and the seller forgot to record it against the item? Perhaps you’ve already agreed a delay with your seller, or you’re bidding on more of their items?
- We need to make a threat to get you to pay (“possible restrictions”) but we don’t want to annoy our buyers, so we’ll make the threat so vague as to be meaningless.
- “If you can’t reach the seller” you can still click a PayPal pay now button…
- “or there’s been a mistake” – it’s your legal right to change your mind, but we’re not going to remind you of that, OR give you the facility to actually cancel your order within the eBay system.
- They seem to have forgotten to include any sense of urgency. You’ve got four days…
Our correspondent points out that he doesn’t automatically view images in emails, so the GREAT BIG YELLOW PAY NOW button wasn’t visible when he first looked at the email: a text link would have been useful.
More useful still would be a decent, legal order cancellation process, so that waffle about mistakes and restrictions could be removed from these emails. “You haven’t paid; did you forget? Click THIS BUTTON to pay, or THIS BUTTON to cancel your order” would be to the point and much more useful for both buyers and sellers in getting unpaid items either paid for, or back able to be listed.
Update 2009/10/29 16h10 Kind of an update on this: the email as per above is part of a very small test that eBay are doing, and is not being sent out to the vast majority of buyers. More information when I have it.
whirly says
3:55 pm on 28/10/2009
Arse meet elbow.
Dear God! here’s a novel idea, I hear on the grapevine it works on lots of other websites…it’s called a ‘Checkout’ ssshhh don’t tell anyone, we don’t want every ecommerce website in the world to jump on the band waggon.
p.s I think you need to add one of the forehead slapping smilies to Tamebay.
Lino says
3:57 pm on 28/10/2009
Seems a great way to annoy buyers. Are eBay actively looking to lower my Communication DSR?
Sue Bailey says
3:59 pm on 28/10/2009
Re. communication etc. – I also love the line about “if you have a problem, contact your seller”. We have no facility to turn off these emails, eBay send them out regardless of our wishes, but if there’s a problem we’re there to clear it up. Gee, thanks.
Chris Dawson says
4:11 pm on 28/10/2009
Looking on the plus side it kicks off “We opened an unpaid item case…” which is a hell of a lot better than “Your seller has dobbed you in for not paying…” on the old version
Richard says
4:32 pm on 28/10/2009
The fourth paragraph doesn’t make sense, what’s “tosue” ????
Immediate payment only was the best thing I ever did a couple of years or so back, I got fed up of being a debt collector.
Sue Bailey says
5:24 pm on October 28th, 2009
So Richard, re. immediate payment only, how has that been working for you?
Richard says
5:33 pm on October 28th, 2009
Awaiting payment – There are no items to display in this view.
…and it’s been like that for 2 years or more
Buyers not paying, chasing up payments, UID’s and all the agro that goes with it dissapaears and becomes a total non-issue.
I like this shopping cart idea you mention, is this some new development in e-commerce?
Lino says
6:22 pm on October 28th, 2009
Richard, does Immediate Payment stop your buyers from placing orders for multiple items and getting a combined invoice?
We currently find that some buyers will browse and commmit to buy over a period of days before requesting a combined invoice.
Sue Bailey says
6:25 pm on October 28th, 2009
Lino, at the moment it does. I got around (kind of) the problem by offering free shipping too – so buyers complain about instant payment less – but they do still complain about having to go through ebay checkout multiple times, and undoubtedly it costs me sales.
Richard says
6:46 pm on October 28th, 2009
This week that’s become s non-issue as well thanks to free P&P.
I still get muliple sales, they’re just paid for and sent seperatly. This was something I monitored closely in the early days, muliple sales still happened at the same rate, (although it was never that much in the old days). With CDs there’s bugger all saving to be had in real terms on the postage anyway since PiP can in some time back. I accept there may be the odd person put off buying multiples, but weighed up against the benefits of immediate payment I’m happy.
Of course on my web site there this new development called a shopping cart.
Linda says
4:35 pm on 28/10/2009
I thought these emails were seller initiated, the seller opts in to the automation and defines the number of days (between 4 and 32 I think) at which the automated reminders are to start.
The ebay announcement certainly gives that impression.
“Sellers can now open an unpaid item case 4 days after the sale takes place.”
Ellen Kunec says
4:39 pm on 28/10/2009
It’s all very poor. I bought something on Saturday that was cash on collection. We have settled up but as the seller hasn’t marked the items paid (and I can no longer mark them Payment Sent) I guess I’ll get a strike. And it’s not easy to email the seller – Contact Seller shows me 2 automated options: request total or cancel purchase. It’s all built on forcing you down the Paypal only route of course. A bit rubbish really.
Sue Bailey says
6:30 pm on October 28th, 2009
Contact Seller shows me 2 automated options: request total or cancel purchase.
Cancel purchase? that’s interesting… Anyone know what happens if you click that?
Ellen Kunec says
9:41 pm on October 28th, 2009
It says this (with some clicky links):
You can’t retract a purchase made through a Buy It Now listing. Once you confirm your purchase, you are obliged to pay the seller.
As a general rule, you also can’t cancel a bid. Once you place a bid, you agree to pay for the item if you’re the winning bidder.
Under certain conditions you may be able to retract your bid. Learn more
If you are buying from a business seller, most Buy-It-Now-purchases are covered under the Distance Selling Regulations, which gives consumers the right to cancel the purchase after they receive the item. Get more details.
Sue Bailey says
10:52 pm on October 28th, 2009
Oh, that’s disappointing… thought they had some new thing going on there for a minute.
JD says
6:25 pm on 28/10/2009
Great.
But I seem to be in the minority.
Very unhappy that sellers cannot switch this off.
I have a lot of browsers who buy (with my complete approval) over a number of days, it saves them p/p costs and me time (less packets to send).
Is the strike totally automatic after 8 days? Can I mark as ‘agreed delay’?
Sue Bailey says
6:29 pm on October 28th, 2009
I think most sellers agree with you JD – we would like to be able to switch this off. The only way I can see to get rid of it is to mark things paid. Which will mean that combined checkout isn’t available.
It’s an absolutely idiotic move and a waste of everyone’s time.
jd says
7:30 pm on 28/10/2009
http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?threadID=1200321206&tstart=0&mod=1256754484919
??????????
Sue Bailey says
7:35 pm on October 28th, 2009
James thinks I’m spinning, does he?
It was confirmed when the announcement was first made that these emails were going out automatically and that sellers could not turn them off… let me go find the link.
frenchcollection says
7:35 pm on 28/10/2009
James has responded on this thread:
http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?threadID=1200321206&tstart=0&mod=1256753955165
Sue Bailey says
7:41 pm on October 28th, 2009
Jo, with all due respect, James has not “responded”. That’s a PowerSeller board thread.
Could someone kindly point out to me where I have said that buyers will automatically get strikes?
Joe says
7:36 pm on 28/10/2009
It seems someone has their facts wrong, Tamebay or eBay?
Kev says
7:44 pm on 28/10/2009
This would makes no sense in relation to cheque payments and the current postal strikes, I’m sure the response by James on the eBay thread cited above is correct.
Sue Bailey says
7:51 pm on October 28th, 2009
LOL, you honestly think eBay policy would come second to a postal strike?
Someone may wish to point James to #11 on this thread:
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/72709-Announcements-Discussion/Can-We-Opt/510120073
and #47 on the same thread
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/72709-Announcements-Discussion/Can-We-Opt/510120073&start=45
Even if sellers OPT OUT of the auto-UPI scenario, these emails still go out, according to this thread.
Someone has their facts wrong, it’s either an eBay employee or an eBay employee….
Kev says
7:59 pm on October 28th, 2009
Even without a postal strike a cheque couldn’t actually be cleared within this timescale, are we to mark uncleared cheques as payment received?
frenchcollection says
7:53 pm on 28/10/2009
Sorry Sue – it was the PS thread (which is misleading in mentioning strikes) that prompted me to come and look.
It does, though, say in your OP here: “These are now sent out automatically by eBay four days after a BIN or the end of an auction, for any listing that has not been marked paid for” – perhaps I’m misunderstanding? James says they’re not automatic?
Sue Bailey says
7:54 pm on October 28th, 2009
Please don’t misquote me. I wrote
new automatic unpaid item reminders>> These
The emails are sent out. Emails aren’t strikes. See my comment above/below/wherever it is.
Sue Bailey says
8:06 pm on October 28th, 2009
Well, apparently I’m going to be contacted by Internal Communications. If I go quiet, you know why…
If there is some clarification on this, I will post it. eBay.com employees have communicated one thing (automatic emails, no opt out), the eBay UK Community Manager has stated that things are otherwise than that statement suggested.
If anyone wants to see the PSB thread and doesn’t have a sign in, drop me a note
frenchcollection says
7:56 pm on 28/10/2009
I just tried to edit my previous post to reflect that but it didn’t work.
The PSB thread title is misleading.
Joe says
8:10 pm on 28/10/2009
But not everything that happens or is announced on eBay.com applies to eBay UK does it?
I’m bowing out of this discussion until some more facts are forthcoming
Sue Bailey says
8:11 pm on October 28th, 2009
The email pasted in my post was for a transaction on eBay UK between a UK buyer and a UK seller.
Joe says
8:14 pm on October 28th, 2009
Aaargggh you got me to reply.
That may be, but the forum you linked to was a discussion on eBay.com about automation with emails on eBay.com, and MAY not apply to eBay UK.
Sue Bailey says
8:17 pm on October 28th, 2009
No, it may not. But the existence of the email suggests it does. We shall see. I’m sure someone from eBay will be in touch if the eBay UK Community Manager says they will be.
Regardless of whether these emails are sent automatically or not, the main point of my post – that, as communication, they suck – stands.
Joe says
8:20 pm on October 28th, 2009
Ok I’m hooked.
One more question – do you know for a fact that the email was generated automatically without the seller’s knowledge?
Sue Bailey says
8:23 pm on October 28th, 2009
If you’re asking me if I’ve had any communication with the seller, then no, I have not.
I’ll say again: whether auto-generated or seller-generated, my point is that this email is TERRIBLE.
Joe says
8:27 pm on October 28th, 2009
I agree, the email is terrible and needs some improvement, but right at the start of the article you said “These are now sent out automatically by eBay four days after a BIN or the end of an auction, for any listing that has not been marked paid”
All I’m asking (and I’m not being awkward I genuinely want to know) is that a factual statement that you can back up with some evidence?
Sue Bailey says
8:50 pm on October 28th, 2009
The announcement made earlier this year that this would happen. Further clarifications by eBay staff that emails would be automatically generated. The fact the we have not (or had not, depending on whether the PSB information is accurate) been told that this information was no longer valid.
PLUS the email itself. It says
We opened an unpaid item case for [your item], because the seller either hasn’t recorded your payment or didn’t receive it yet.
If it’s a seller-generated email, why does it says “…either hasn’t recorded your payment or…” If it’s a seller-generated email, it should say “the seller hasn’t received your payment yet”, not have that guff about recording.
Darth, that’s all the proof I have. If that’s not enough, I’m sorry to hear it. As I’ve said, if/when eBay clarify this, I will post again.
Joe says
10:51 am on October 29th, 2009
Thanks for the reply.
board_surfer says
8:12 pm on 28/10/2009
that doesnt look like a reminder to pay
it looks like someone has opened an non payment dispute
board_surfer says
8:24 pm on 28/10/2009
“I’m sure someone from eBay will be in touch if the eBay UK Community Manager says they will be.”
hmmph, I am still waiting for him to email me, fortunately I am not holding my breath.
board_surfer says
8:59 pm on 28/10/2009
well the mail is certainly written in a way to make it appear automatically generated as it talks of the seller in the third party.
if it is not automatic it is the worse written email ive seen in a long time.
Sue Bailey says
9:01 pm on October 28th, 2009
if it is not automaticit is the worse written email ive seen in a long time.Kathy says
7:38 am on 29/10/2009
It’s rather awful.
I would take it a declaration stating that “Buyers,you must pay for the item in * days,or else,an unpaid item strike will definitely follows behind.Take CARE!” instead of communication.
I don’t believe that buyers who receive this “reminder” would be happy to pay,and even if they do,the unhappiness must have an influance on the transaction.However,there’s seldomly any buyers who would express their unsatisfication directly to ebay,therefore,it must be the sellers,who are unfairly responsible for this offensive mail.
The time when ebay clarified that improvement would be carried out in unpaid case I was expecting a more convenient and appropriate way.And it seems now rather dispointing.
Does ebay do it for it wants to reduce the number of Top Rated Seller?
Oh God~
AMFM says
11:53 am on 29/10/2009
So now my personal very gentle reminder that says ‘please ignore this reminder if we have agreed to wait for payment’.
We do this regularly, as we sell only by buy it now.
Is it just me, or is ebay almost trying to remove the ebay Seller from the site?
Its like ebay think ‘sellers are so dreadful let the buyer have the least possible interaction with them’!
fog says
1:23 am on 30/10/2009
That is not the letter that goes out as a payment reminder. The automated payment reminder letter is very different. This is the Unpaid item letter and only gets sent out when you open an UPI. In order to get automated UPI’s you have to sign up for it and that option is not available yet.
fog says
1:25 am on 30/10/2009
I do not understand what is so hard for people to understand about these two similar but very different programs.
The one above is a letter for UPI. You can either send it out manually like you always have or you can set-up auto-UPI to open cases for you on your choice of day 4,16,24,or 32. There is no need to opt out of this because it requires an opt in.
The other email will be pretty much an end of auction letter (like they have sent out for years) followed by an end of auction letter reminder on day 3. This one is mandatory. Why would you want to opt out of it. It just invoices and then sends a gentle reminder that they purchased an item (the above letter is not this letter). After the first couple of weeks nobodies customers are going to mind this because it will be happening with every transaction the buyer sees.
fog says
1:27 am on 30/10/2009
As far as I know they do not have a legal right to change their mind. I believe the law that you arw referring to is a pressure sale law, that gives you the right to cancel a contract entered into with a pushy salesperson. To the best of my knowledge there was an attempt to apply this law to Ebay sales in the courts and the courts said that it did not apply because there was no high pressure sales involved.
Sue Bailey says
12:24 pm on October 30th, 2009
For anyone in the EU, the above comment contains factually inaccurate information. EU (including the UK) buyers via distance selling (i.e. internet, mail order) *do* have the right to change their mind, for any or no reason whatsoever. This is nothing to do with any “pushy salesman” law in any country.
There is more information for UK sellers here:
) the actual legal instrument is here
http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/legal/distance-selling-regulations/
and (should you have insomnia
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm
Bigpoppa says
9:37 am on 30/10/2009
Fog, I’m guessing you’re not from the UK because there is no law that gives people a right to cancel a contract sold to them by a “pushy salesman”.
Slaes by their very nature are sometimes pushy and there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s only when the terms are legally unfair or the buyer was “forced” into the sale that it becomes an issue.
The biggest change eBay could implement would be a checkout, this would eliminate many of the problems around payment etc and increase buyer avg spend.
fog says
4:20 pm on October 30th, 2009
You are right I am not in the UK, and did not realize that this blog was written by an UK citizen.
I am in no way an expert in international law but I wonder.
If the fact that Ebay is based in California would affect how your law is applied (the internet is a brand new place with alot of undefined boundaries)
I also wonder if you buy from me in the US who’s law would prevail since you made the purchase in the US but live in the UK
Also while you have the right in the UK not to pay (that is what I am assuming) Ebay has the right (in the US/don’t know about the UK) to refuse service to anyone they see fit, and not paying for a couple of items is more then enough reason to kick someone out of their store.
Richard says
4:50 pm on October 30th, 2009
Let’s not forget for the moment that eBay isn’t a retailer, never has been, it’s a service provider.
Not that this issue affects me anyhow as I only do immediate payment only, but if it did, I’d be a bit miffed that eBay was interfering in such a manner. How long you as a seller wish to give people to pay should be entirely in your hands.
As for retail law in the UK compared to the USA and even from state to state, the UK law is much more on the side of the comsumer. We have a cooling off period but it only applies to sales made in certain ways, the internet being one of them.
With regards to be able to being able to refuse to sell anyone you so choose, yes you can do that over here too. However, keep in mind in eBay land that if they’ve purchased from you and you do so, you are at risk of a neg, poor DSR’s and having a non-perfoming selling report raised against you.
Among thousands of transactions on eBay over the years I can only recall one buyer I refused point blank to deal with, payment returned and blocked from buying, I guess i wasn’t the only seller thay upset as they went NARU a few days later. Coming from a retail background of 30 years, eBay is childs play service wise, it’s easy to get right, though no doubt many wont agree on that one.
fog says
5:03 pm on October 30th, 2009
I agree once they buy you have to follow through but you do not have to let them back through the door the next time.
This problem does not effect anyone. It is an opt in feature when it goes active and you get to set how long before they get sent.
OP has had it explained to them very well but has still failed to correct their blog explaining that this is not the automatic invoice that is mandatory, this is an opt in UPI invoice. I would imagine that it is the same invoice that is sent when you open an UPI yourself. Ebay said that they were toning down the UPI letter so buyers would not feel threatened and be less likely to retaliate. They said they were removing any talk of a strike (which they did).
David Brackin says
1:19 pm on 30/10/2009
We’re experimenting with this feature, and it seems a bit harsh for everyone to jump all over it when it’s a small beta trial — isn’t that what we want eBay to be doing more of? Testing stuff before rolling it out? I do.
This feature can be turned off in Account -> Site Preferences -> Unpaid Item Assistant
My understanding is that this just kick-starts the UPI process. If they respond (the cheque is on the way) then it starts communication in the dispute console and doesn’t automatically close.
The only auto closures are where the buyer does nothing at all (so no possibilty of feedback) and a strike is issued.
This automates and speeds up the process — 4 days is a bit prompt — we’d have chosen 7 or 8 ideally, but it seems to be 4 or 14, IIRC. I prefer the message coming from eBay, not me (if the buyer see it that way).
I wonder what happens with collections (cash — oops sorry — payment on collection etc).
Yet to see how it works, but hey – that’s the idea of a beta.
David Brackin says
1:25 pm on October 30th, 2009
My mistake — can send this after 4, 8, 16, 24 or 32 days.
[Looks like someone who loves binary got rail-roaded there...]
fog says
5:11 pm on 30/10/2009
This is what they announced in July in the US
# Unpaid items: Streamlined process cuts time in half. If a buyer doesn’t pay, you can open an “unpaid item” case through the eBay Resolution Center. Changes to this process, coming in September, will make it faster and more efficient to get resolution—either getting paid, or getting your Final Value Fees refunded and your inventory “back on the shelf.”
* Time to resolution will essentially be cut in half—from as long as 60 days to about 30 days—mainly as a result of reducing the emails and “back-and-forth steps. You can choose to start the process as early as 4 days after the item ends, and have it close as soon as 8 days after the item ends.
* Fewer pages to fill out means opening and closing cases will be easier and less time-consuming. And you’ll be able to contact Customer Support via phone or chat as well as email.
* Email communications with your customers will be clearer and more neutral in tone and come from eBay (no more mandatory back and forth between buyer and seller). There will also be fewer emails overall.
* You’ll even be able to choose to have the process initiated automatically—especially helpful for sellers with very high transaction volume. The new automated process will roll out gradually starting at the end of September and we are planning to make it available to all sellers by the holiday season.
* With the automated process, buyers won’t be permitted to leave Feedback when a claim is open.
fog says
5:12 pm on October 30th, 2009
Email communications with your customers will be clearer and more neutral in tone and come from eBay
JD says
2:18 pm on 05/11/2009
New automated emails appear to have been introduced to ebay .co.uk today.
They have spelling mistakes and still beg a number of questions.
http://k2b-bulk.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?SMProPreferences
Andy says
2:36 pm on November 5th, 2009
They’re horrendous aren’t they.
“Thanks for your recent purchase on eBay! Please remember to pay your item so that the seller can ship it to you as soon as possible.”
How do you pay an item?
Idiots!
whirly says
3:38 pm on November 5th, 2009
‘thanks again for shipping on eBay’
You have to bloody wonder sometimes.
They are sending this to our bloody customers for crying out loud.
JD says
5:22 pm on November 5th, 2009
Pity they didn’t get their p’s mixed up with t’s as well.
We could have got a proper headline then!