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	<title>Comments on: L&#8217;Oréal to appeal eBay ruling</title>
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	<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html</link>
	<description>eBay &#38; ecommerce made easy</description>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48413</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48413</guid>
		<description>Did anyone  see this  &gt; http://www.marketingmagazine.co.uk/news/908076/eBay-wins-court-battle-counterfeit-LOreal-goods/ 


L&#039;Oreal argued that restricting the distribution of their products and preventing them from being sold on eBay protected consumers against counterfeit products. In court, of the 15 products hand-selected by L&#039;Oreal as evidence against eBay UK, none was proven to be counterfeit. 
Most of us know that the big brands are trying to control the market ,it has nothing to do with Fakes at all .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did anyone  see this  &gt; <a href="http://www.marketingmagazine.co.uk/news/908076/eBay-wins-court-battle-counterfeit-LOreal-goods/" rel="nofollow">http://www.marketingmagazine.co.uk/news/908076/eBay-wins-court-battle-counterfeit-LOreal-goods/</a> </p>
<p>L&#8217;Oreal argued that restricting the distribution of their products and preventing them from being sold on eBay protected consumers against counterfeit products. In court, of the 15 products hand-selected by L&#8217;Oreal as evidence against eBay UK, none was proven to be counterfeit.<br />
Most of us know that the big brands are trying to control the market ,it has nothing to do with Fakes at all .</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48400</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48400</guid>
		<description>#16 an interesting read....I think there are better example out there of how daft the VERO system is though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#16 an interesting read&#8230;.I think there are better example out there of how daft the VERO system is though.</p>
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		<title>By: ebuyerfb</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48396</link>
		<dc:creator>ebuyerfb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48396</guid>
		<description>negative-feedback.com has a very interesting story about one man&#039;s fight against VeRO.  It isn&#039;t my site (in case some people make that assumption) nor do I know the owner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>negative-feedback.com has a very interesting story about one man&#8217;s fight against VeRO.  It isn&#8217;t my site (in case some people make that assumption) nor do I know the owner.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48395</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48395</guid>
		<description>The Vero system is so abused it&#039;s a complete joke.  It&#039;s only EVER used to limit trade and the punishments that eBay give out are so over the top.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Vero system is so abused it&#8217;s a complete joke.  It&#8217;s only EVER used to limit trade and the punishments that eBay give out are so over the top.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimbo</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48390</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48390</guid>
		<description>In my opinion the correct procedure would be for the rights own to send a cease and desist type letter directly to the seller. If the seller does not comply the rights owner should then take the appropriate legal action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion the correct procedure would be for the rights own to send a cease and desist type letter directly to the seller. If the seller does not comply the rights owner should then take the appropriate legal action.</p>
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		<title>By: whirly</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48389</link>
		<dc:creator>whirly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48389</guid>
		<description>I read a story yesterday about a seller who got a severe policy slap for selling a lighter the same shape as a zippo (correct me if I got that bit wrong) apparently Zippo own the patent for the shape of the lighter.

“Dear Seller, sorry, please don’t list that stuff any more” would have been more than an adequate response from eBay instead of the very harsh policy warning that the seller advised she had recieved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read a story yesterday about a seller who got a severe policy slap for selling a lighter the same shape as a zippo (correct me if I got that bit wrong) apparently Zippo own the patent for the shape of the lighter.</p>
<p>“Dear Seller, sorry, please don’t list that stuff any more” would have been more than an adequate response from eBay instead of the very harsh policy warning that the seller advised she had recieved.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48388</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48388</guid>
		<description>I remember Brian Burke (who is - or was - in charge of the VeRO program saying in Boston that if people make false claims under penalty of perjury, then that&#039;s their decision: that&#039;s what false VeRO claims are. Can eBay be expected to fight each and every one of them? I don&#039;t think so. It&#039;s a horrible risk you run if you&#039;re selling branded items without the explicit cooperation of the brand owner. And it&#039;s particularly horrible when - as has happened to more than one cosmetics seller I know - the brand owner sells off overstock and end of line very cheaply, and then complains when it&#039;s sold on eBay that it cheapens their image. 

Where I have the *really* big problem is the penalties that eBay imposes. They know this false brand protection goes on; in many cases, they know which companies are doing it - and yet they penalise sellers for it. If the situation were handled more pragmatically - &quot;Dear Seller, sorry, please don&#039;t list that stuff any more&quot; in the first instance - rather than a great big policy violation and the threat of losing your account straight off - this would be much less of a problem. 

And what is really needed, of course, is a re-seller big enough to take on the big brand owners, who is prepared to go to court to defend their right to re-sell. With the way eBay is moving towards favouring larger sellers, perhaps this day is not so far off now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember Brian Burke (who is &#8211; or was &#8211; in charge of the VeRO program saying in Boston that if people make false claims under penalty of perjury, then that&#8217;s their decision: that&#8217;s what false VeRO claims are. Can eBay be expected to fight each and every one of them? I don&#8217;t think so. It&#8217;s a horrible risk you run if you&#8217;re selling branded items without the explicit cooperation of the brand owner. And it&#8217;s particularly horrible when &#8211; as has happened to more than one cosmetics seller I know &#8211; the brand owner sells off overstock and end of line very cheaply, and then complains when it&#8217;s sold on eBay that it cheapens their image. </p>
<p>Where I have the *really* big problem is the penalties that eBay imposes. They know this false brand protection goes on; in many cases, they know which companies are doing it &#8211; and yet they penalise sellers for it. If the situation were handled more pragmatically &#8211; &#8220;Dear Seller, sorry, please don&#8217;t list that stuff any more&#8221; in the first instance &#8211; rather than a great big policy violation and the threat of losing your account straight off &#8211; this would be much less of a problem. </p>
<p>And what is really needed, of course, is a re-seller big enough to take on the big brand owners, who is prepared to go to court to defend their right to re-sell. With the way eBay is moving towards favouring larger sellers, perhaps this day is not so far off now.</p>
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		<title>By: Lino</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48386</link>
		<dc:creator>Lino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 06:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48386</guid>
		<description>@7 &quot;If you see a company doing bad things, report it to ebay&quot;

Shouldn&#039;t eBay be policing their site, not us?

And what&#039;s the point? You report it to eBay, you have no idea whether eBay have done anything about it. And even if they do pull the listing, the seller simply relists it.

We only sell genuine merchandise, but we&#039;ve spoken in the past to eBay about competitors selling fakes, and they do not care. Why would they really want to when they&#039;re making millions of dollars out of it.

@10 Totally agree. Unfortunately, as our competitors get more desperate, we&#039;re finding more and more listings are getting pulled. We had 4 pulled overnight for Copyright Violation, and I know we haven&#039;t done anything wrong. It would be nice to have the chance to defend our listings before someone at eBay removes them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@7 &#8220;If you see a company doing bad things, report it to ebay&#8221;</p>
<p>Shouldn&#8217;t eBay be policing their site, not us?</p>
<p>And what&#8217;s the point? You report it to eBay, you have no idea whether eBay have done anything about it. And even if they do pull the listing, the seller simply relists it.</p>
<p>We only sell genuine merchandise, but we&#8217;ve spoken in the past to eBay about competitors selling fakes, and they do not care. Why would they really want to when they&#8217;re making millions of dollars out of it.</p>
<p>@10 Totally agree. Unfortunately, as our competitors get more desperate, we&#8217;re finding more and more listings are getting pulled. We had 4 pulled overnight for Copyright Violation, and I know we haven&#8217;t done anything wrong. It would be nice to have the chance to defend our listings before someone at eBay removes them.</p>
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		<title>By: jack</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48384</link>
		<dc:creator>jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 02:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48384</guid>
		<description>The problem I have with all of this is indiscriminate pulling of listings.  I sell legit Loreal products as liquids from major retail chains.

If they buy one of mine and determine its fake thats one thing.  If they pull my listing because they think its fake, thats a problem because everything I sell is real.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem I have with all of this is indiscriminate pulling of listings.  I sell legit Loreal products as liquids from major retail chains.</p>
<p>If they buy one of mine and determine its fake thats one thing.  If they pull my listing because they think its fake, thats a problem because everything I sell is real.</p>
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		<title>By: fatseal</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48383</link>
		<dc:creator>fatseal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 02:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48383</guid>
		<description>But I think ebay knows that many of their items listed are fakes, but they don&#039;t care.  I have reported so many items that are blatantly fake from &quot;MACS&quot; cosmetics to Coach bags that don&#039;t even look close, to gold and gemstone jewelry from China that is base metal and glass, but if the seller is a Powerseller, then the listings are never pulled and the seller never suspended, for the simple fact that ebay makes a ton of money in listing fees.  And hundreds of people everyday keep buying fake cosmetics, perfume, bags and jewelry made who knows where and out of god knows what.  And if those fake perfumes and cosmetics are made in China, buyers can be putting all sorts of chemicals, lead or other substances on their skin! YUM!! No worth saving a few bucks in my book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But I think ebay knows that many of their items listed are fakes, but they don&#8217;t care.  I have reported so many items that are blatantly fake from &#8220;MACS&#8221; cosmetics to Coach bags that don&#8217;t even look close, to gold and gemstone jewelry from China that is base metal and glass, but if the seller is a Powerseller, then the listings are never pulled and the seller never suspended, for the simple fact that ebay makes a ton of money in listing fees.  And hundreds of people everyday keep buying fake cosmetics, perfume, bags and jewelry made who knows where and out of god knows what.  And if those fake perfumes and cosmetics are made in China, buyers can be putting all sorts of chemicals, lead or other substances on their skin! YUM!! No worth saving a few bucks in my book.</p>
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		<title>By: ebuyerfb</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48378</link>
		<dc:creator>ebuyerfb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48378</guid>
		<description>@ # 7

I have a hunch that the shopping centre has a lot more money than the shop though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ # 7</p>
<p>I have a hunch that the shopping centre has a lot more money than the shop though.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48377</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48377</guid>
		<description>eBay is a market place, many companies. If you see a company doing bad things, report it to ebay.

L’Oréal need to go after the people who are selling the fakes, not the market place which provides the shops.

If you have a shopping centre in your town, and one of the small shops sells something that is fake, the brand wouldn&#039;t sue the shopping centre, they sue the shop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eBay is a market place, many companies. If you see a company doing bad things, report it to ebay.</p>
<p>L’Oréal need to go after the people who are selling the fakes, not the market place which provides the shops.</p>
<p>If you have a shopping centre in your town, and one of the small shops sells something that is fake, the brand wouldn&#8217;t sue the shopping centre, they sue the shop.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48376</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48376</guid>
		<description>@4, At Tesco, you can at least see the product, pick it up, and check it before buying, on the web it is different. It&#039;s not as ebay is going to check every product which is a massive index somewhat larger than the likes of tesco. Unfortunately tesco isn&#039;t a good enough example, even when the tesco van comes round you can check your products before he skips off.

Brands should work closer with ebay which is a more practicle model to identify what potentially could be fakes.

I suggest that for specific brands, images should identify some aspect of the product to identify if that infact is genuine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@4, At Tesco, you can at least see the product, pick it up, and check it before buying, on the web it is different. It&#8217;s not as ebay is going to check every product which is a massive index somewhat larger than the likes of tesco. Unfortunately tesco isn&#8217;t a good enough example, even when the tesco van comes round you can check your products before he skips off.</p>
<p>Brands should work closer with ebay which is a more practicle model to identify what potentially could be fakes.</p>
<p>I suggest that for specific brands, images should identify some aspect of the product to identify if that infact is genuine.</p>
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		<title>By: Lino</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48375</link>
		<dc:creator>Lino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48375</guid>
		<description>@4 Agree entirely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@4 Agree entirely.</p>
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		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48374</link>
		<dc:creator>pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48374</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with L&#039;oreal on this.  Of course eBay are accountable for items for sale on their site.

If Tescos were selling fake clothes etc, they would be held accountable.  And before you say that eBay only provide a venue for us to sell goods on where as Tescos source the products themselves, you would be wrong.

Many areas inside large superstores are leased out to vendors.  Tescos know they have a duty to vet those vendors, as do eBay.

At the end of the day, eBay/Paypal are processing the sale of fake goods so they should share some of the blame.  The fact that it&#039;s very hard to remove all fakes from the site doesn&#039;t count for squat!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with L&#8217;oreal on this.  Of course eBay are accountable for items for sale on their site.</p>
<p>If Tescos were selling fake clothes etc, they would be held accountable.  And before you say that eBay only provide a venue for us to sell goods on where as Tescos source the products themselves, you would be wrong.</p>
<p>Many areas inside large superstores are leased out to vendors.  Tescos know they have a duty to vet those vendors, as do eBay.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, eBay/Paypal are processing the sale of fake goods so they should share some of the blame.  The fact that it&#8217;s very hard to remove all fakes from the site doesn&#8217;t count for squat!</p>
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		<title>By: FenLex</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48368</link>
		<dc:creator>FenLex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48368</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s nice to know that some of my former professional brethren are still getting work - too many lawyers have been laid off recently!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s nice to know that some of my former professional brethren are still getting work &#8211; too many lawyers have been laid off recently!</p>
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		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48366</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48366</guid>
		<description>Well, the only people who are benefitting from this are the lawyers. :-(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the only people who are benefitting from this are the lawyers. <img src='http://tamebay.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: board_surfer</title>
		<link>http://tamebay.com/2009/06/loreal-to-appeal-ebay-ruling.html#comment-48365</link>
		<dc:creator>board_surfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tamebay.com/?p=7490#comment-48365</guid>
		<description>One would hope that Ebay tell them to stick their mediation where the sun don&#039;t shine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One would hope that Ebay tell them to stick their mediation where the sun don&#8217;t shine.</p>
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