Comments on: “Safeguarding Members IDs is not a licence to shill”

By: eBay.com masks all bidder IDs : TameBay

eBay.com masks all bidder IDs : TameBay — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 20:59:11 +0000

[...] regarded one of eBay’s most controversial policies (oh, how times change!), Matt says that SMI has been a [...]

By: eBay to mask buyer ids on all auctions : TameBay

eBay to mask buyer ids on all auctions : TameBay — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:41:44 +0000

[...] bidding on auctions just as they did in 2006. eBay do have shill detection systems in place and limited information on bidders history is still available to site users. Sellers will still be able to see the full buyer ids on their own [...]

By: Ronin

Ronin — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:54:32 +0000

Thanks for replying Chris. You’ve certainly put my mind at rest. The annoying thing is I’m quite new to Ebay and it was a very experienced seller who first suggested we bid on each others items. Ebay suspended my account but not his. Presumably, because he’s been selling for years, he has other contacts with whom he shills. Anyway, I’ve certainly learnt my lesson.

By: Chris Dawson

Chris Dawson — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:57:36 +0000

Hi Ronin, thanks so much for posting, many people don’t believe eBay are active in detecting shill bidding so it’s great news to know that they are. I don’t think eBay are likely to prosecute you so you can rest easy there. The good news is that if you’ve received a 14 day suspension and it was your first one it’s likely they’ll allow you back onto the site but I can’t promise as I don’t know the circumstances.

By: Ronin

Ronin — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:35:18 +0000

I have to confess that I am guilty of shill bidding. In all honesty I didn’t realise it was illegal and I hadn’t even heard of the term before Ebay suspended my account. I knew it was unethical, of course, but illegal? Ultimately nobody forces people to bid if the price is too high but I accept I shouldn’t have done it. The items were in the price range of 30-50 pounds. What is the likelihood of prosecution? Ebay will allow me to sell again after 14 days.

By: Anonny Mouse

Anonny Mouse — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:59:04 +0000

I’m amazed by this discussion about something which many experts are divided over.

Some “know-it-alls” claim it is rampant. Others say that eBay can detect all and stop it dead. eBay may well have the technology, but to me it look likes they rarely employ it. But is it really as bad as some would have you believe?

The plain fact is, both the small seller and the large sell want the same thing, the most amount of money for their item as they can get. Ergo, some, not all, will get a mate to push the price up. Or use a second ID.

Its a fact of life. I think those that moan the most have either an ulterior motive or do it themselves!

By: TameBay : Town Hall: total price searches, SMI, UK/US visibility

TameBay : Town Hall: total price searches, SMI, UK/US visibility — Sun, 08 Apr 2007 18:05:28 +0000

[...] Meanwhile, though Safeguarding Members’ IDs remains controversial amongst members (we’ve had some epic comments on one old post recently), the noise from SJC is that the program is a success. Matt Helprin, “resident Town Hall Trust and Safety guy”, said, “we have seen a material reduction in the reports of fake scams or fake second chance offers. It, in fact, theyâ€™ve almost disappeared for anything above $200.00. I mean theyâ€™re down to over 90%.” [...]

By: Biddy

Biddy — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 22:17:12 +0000

…. And if you really are a “real auction house owner”, then you really do have a vested interest in spreading your dirt about eBay sellers, don’t you!!

By: Mountie

Mountie — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 20:29:25 +0000

You seem to have a problem with PowerSellers and an assumption that they get special treatment. Whilst you’re perfectly entitled to your opinion I have to disagree. PowerSellers are subject to the same rules as any other seller on eBay and people that intimate they get special treatment are quite simply wrong. If you log onto the PowerSeller chat boards you’ll find plenty of threads to back this up.

By: REAL Auction House Owner

REAL Auction House Owner — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 15:49:30 +0000

It’s a complete joke on all concerned. Ebay will NEVER do anything about shill bidding on Power Sellers and rarely in any other case. Anyone who has any experience buying / selling on ebay spots those auctions with “kinky” bidding going on. Sometimes it is so blatant it is pathetic and other times a bit more sophisticated as if it is being done by a “conglomerate” of some sort. It is time for someone to come forth with an HONEST online auction. Ebay does NOTHING to police violators especially when they are Power Sellers. Any search online involving the words ” shill, bidding, ebay, FBI, investigation, fraud, etc” will return null or minimal or OLD results. I refuse to believe that there are NO active investigations against EBAY “itself” for its apparent active participation OR at least their apparent knowledge of, without CEASING the practice. It is almost as if they now support it with these “bidder protected” auctions. I have a rule, any auction with “protected bidders” or with any LOW or NO feedback user running up the auction in an almost ridiculous pattern, or any seller who re-sells the same item over and over again ( barring any legitimate Dealers), any one with HIDDEN or Astronomical Shipping / Handling charges, a seller who continually stops an auction that does not reach a certain price, or suspected shill bidding … I refuse to bid on those auctions or even waste my time watching them. I had written Ebay many times with complaints, all of them were SOLID and PROVABLE, the evidence was a NO-BRAINER … a child could have seen it. Those complaints come back with “sucker” responses. I have also written them to ADD a function within each user account … where he or she could BLOCK any auctions …. that are offered by a seller that he or she is suspicious of.
Again, no response. Figure this all out for yourself. Ebay has become a world-wide necessary evil but I would support anyone with enough guts and money to start a HONEST Web Auction site that would become a REAL THREAT to Ebay. The last FRAUD Ebay article I found online in the major search engines was 2000. THAT is impossible, so I started searching the lesser known search engines lime Mama, etc. See what you get then !! The Stakes are big, the PAY off is bigger and the Big Corporations are getting fat on ILLEGAL practices. If you doubt me … report a legitimate complaint on Suspected shill bidding or POWERSELLER inappropriate actions and SEE what happens. You will get MORONIC responses. Try to CALL Ebay for a complaint … that is even a bigger waste of time and effort.

By: Another Lee

Another Lee — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 21:52:40 +0000

This is a fairly typical eBay response: 2nd chance offers lead to fraudulent offers, customers complain, eBay thinks about it a while, decides 2nd chance offers are not the problem, and solves the problem by hiding bidder names. If that weren’t so dumb it would be funny.

Shilling is the MAJOR problem that breaks down trust in an auction system. Tangential frauds do not affect the integrity of the auction itself. People who do not trust the BIDDING system will bid less and less often. Sellers lose and lose big. eBay will also lose and will lose as long as they remove transparency from their auction system.

Frauds caused by their 2nd chance idea are a black eye, fewer bids are bottom line. Someone at eBay will eventually crunch the numbers with that super system alluded to above and maybe common sense will return (along with transparency – and an end to the second chance nonsense).

By: Mountie

Mountie — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 00:16:40 +0000

Hi Lee
Maybe you’d like to tell bidancient that eBay doesn’t mess with it’s breadwinners….. that’s what he thought too

By: Lee

Lee — Mon, 12 Feb 2007 01:39:43 +0000

Ummm why would I trust a mega seller’s opinion on shilling when his motivation is to make as much money as he can from his own auctions? Shilling comes in many forms and does nothing but help the seller and Ebay. Why should we trust either to do anything that isn’t in their best interest? It’s no wonder why Ebay has invoked this new practice of concealing ID’s. It does nothing but protect their own interests.

The bit about sellers activities being better revealed now is BS. It hasn’t changed anything. Ebay is rampant with shill bidders who do so in the open and they rarely do anything when informed about it. There are numerous examples of high profile sellers who have admitted to shilling and rarely if ever has anything ever happened to the them.

The same goes for sellers peddling bootlegged or illegal goods. Thousands of complaints are logged on a daily basis and rarely if ever is an offending item removed, especially if the seller does a lot of business with Ebay. It’s only the small sellers whose items get removed or whose accounts get suspended. Ebay doesn’t mess with it’s breadwinners so don’t be stupid enough to suggest otherwise.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:59:00 +0000

It is amazing how a small amount of “core” ebay users believe they actually detect and help stop shill bidding. Ebay has more technology in place to detect shill bidding than people give them credit for. Ebay is tracking IP addresses, registration names and dates and many other factors that a bidder/seller can never see…and ebay will be giving the site more visiblitity on data that was previously not available to bidders. Pennymachines really does not get it, stopping fraud is more important that helping him save $3 on a item. Ebay rolled out this policy in motors in Nov. and they are rolling it out in core this week. So you will still recieve second chance offers until this is fully roled out on the site.

By: pennymachines

pennymachines — Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:58:00 +0000

I'm amazed that you think this is a good idea.

Hidden bidder ID's make it almost impossible to spot and report shills, and the 30 day anonymous bidder's history is useless for detecting fraudulent activity. The active eBay community are appalled by the new sytem: Safeguarding Member IDs eBay Forum thread

And if it stops fake second chance offers dead, how come we're still getting them?

That eBay decided to allow second chance offers was ill-judged at best, greedy at worst. Had they not done so, buyers could have continued to protect themselves by the simple expedient of never buying through emails (whether or not they appear to come from eBay). As it is, the scams will continue to thrive - particulary if people believe the new system "stops fake second chance offers dead".

Brushing away shill bidding as a "lesser crime" won't do, as I think you realize. It is fraudulent. It costs the buyers by forcing them to pay more than they would in a legitimate auction. Sure the bidders' maximum bid indicates what they're prepared to pay if other genuine bidders force them to, but the purpose of an auction is not to realize that price regardless (much as that may suit eBay's coffers).